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Thread: Thursday July 30 Rumors

  1. #46
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    You'd honestly feel worse about a starting staff led by Halladay and Volquez + dreck than you do about this current pile of stool?
    If you wanted to tear apart the team and trade some really good players for 1 good player that would make so much money that we wouldn't have much flexibility than yeah I'd feel worse about that.

    You, and a few others, think that the rotation can't be any good, that Bruce stinks, that the minors stinks, etc etc etc ..... but I'd like to think that the majority just don't agree.


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  3. #47
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    The Ms essentially traded Lou to the Rays for Randy Winn. I wonder if the Reds could trade Dusty for a similar type player....
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #48
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    The Reds do not need Halladay to compete. He would be a great addition, but not at the cost of gutting the team.

    I'm sorry, but your notion that you need a true TOR guy to compete is utter nonsense, and not backed up by any facts.

    The Dodgers, Phillies, Marlins, Rockies, Angels, Rangers, Rays, Twins, Brewers, and White Sox are all contending this season, and none of them have a true TOR guy who is significantly better than either Cueto or Volquez.

    And look what having a TOR guys has done for the Jay's and the Mets.

    TOR pitchers are great to have, but they aren't necessary to make the Playoffs, and don't guarantee it either.
    Dodgers have Kershaw and Billingsley
    White Sox have Buerhle
    Angels have Weaver
    For their park size, Millwood's pitching like a TOR guy.

    The only two true contending teams on your list without a TOR guy are the Phillies and Rockies. But the Phils just added one, further evidence that they're a team who understands: no ace, no relevance.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  5. #49
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    If you wanted to tear apart the team and trade some really good players for 1 good player that would make so much money that we wouldn't have much flexibility than yeah I'd feel worse about that.

    You, and a few others, think that the rotation can't be any good, that Bruce stinks, that the minors stinks, etc etc etc ..... but I'd like to think that the majority just don't agree.
    I don't think Bruce stinks, I think he's a few years from positively impacting an offense.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  6. #50
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Dodgers have Kershaw and Billingsley
    White Sox have Buerhle
    Angels have Weaver
    For their park size, Millwood's pitching like a TOR guy.

    The only two true contending teams on your list without a TOR guy are the Phillies and Rockies. But the Phils just added one, further evidence that they're a team who understands: no ace, no relevance.
    Wow, it's fascinating how you overrate players on other teams and underrate our own players. The only pitcher you mentioned that could be a TRUE TOR guy is Kershaw and he's still learning. Buerhle/Bills are very good but TOR? And Weaver/Millwood?????

    Seriously, Millwood??

  7. #51
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Reds don't have another major league arm to send to the Jays. If he doesn't mind Volquez instead of Cueto. Whatever. The details are academic. Getting the ace is step number one to building anything.
    I'd rather them send Volquez than Cueto, but we don't know the true state of Volquez's health, and I think 'ol JP would still have a hard time not listing every name he received for Halladay, since Volquez would probably have to be a PTBNL.

  8. #52
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Wow, it's fascinating how you overrate players on other teams and underrate our own players. The only pitcher you mentioned that could be a TRUE TOR guy is Kershaw and he's still learning. Buerhle/Bills are very good but TOR? And Weaver/Millwood?????
    Name a pitcher in the Reds rotation who could carry Weaver's cleats?
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  9. #53
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Reds don't have another major league arm to send to the Jays. If he doesn't mind Volquez instead of Cueto. Whatever. The details are academic. Getting the ace is step number one to building anything.
    An ace pitcher is important, but I don't think that's what we should be targeting at this point.

    Let's look at the last 4 years or so. The Reds tried that theory. First there 1/2 punch was Harang/Arroyo. We spent a lot locking them up. Now they have fallen to earth for whatever reason and are not earning their money.

    Then we traded our (arguably) best position player for Volquez. He gave us an ace year, but the team still went nowhere. Now he's injured.

    The problem is that this team has far too many holes. Both Wayne and Walt share the blame in that. I'd rather focus on getting a solid starting 8 first, then sell the farm for an ace pitcher. If we get Hallday, I'm pretty confident he'll put up great peripheral stats, but he will probably go something like 13-11 with this team. He's already said he's going to test FA, even if we could get him to agree to come to Cincy.

    I'd rather the team focus on addressing the lack of positional player talent at this point. They can get the best pitching staff in the league, but until they upgrade the position players, they aren't going anywhere.

    Investing a lot of resources in pitching at this point doesn't make sense. It's a high risk gamble (see Arroyo and Harang). The team is several years away from contending unless Bob is willing to add 30 milion of payroll in the offseason.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #54
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Name a pitcher in the Reds rotation who could carry Weaver's cleats?
    cueto

  11. #55
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    cueto
    Please. Put him in the AL, and he'd be lucky to have an ERA under 5.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  12. #56
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    An ace pitcher is important, but I don't think that's what we should be targeting at this point.

    Let's look at the last 4 years or so. The Reds tried that theory. First there 1/2 punch was Harang/Arroyo. We spent a lot locking them up. Now they have fallen to earth for whatever reason and are not earning their money.

    Then we traded our (arguably) best position player for Volquez. He gave us an ace year, but the team still went nowhere. Now he's injured.

    The problem is that this team has far too many holes. Both Wayne and Walt share the blame in that. I'd rather focus on getting a solid starting 8 first, then sell the farm for an ace pitcher. If we get Hallday, I'm pretty confident he'll put up great peripheral stats, but he will probably go something like 13-11 with this team. He's already said he's going to test FA, even if we could get him to agree to come to Cincy.

    I'd rather the team focus on addressing the lack of positional player talent at this point. They can get the best pitching staff in the league, but until they upgrade the position players, they aren't going anywhere.

    Investing a lot of resources in pitching at this point doesn't make sense. It's a high risk gamble (see Arroyo and Harang). The team is several years away from contending unless Bob is willing to add 30 milion of payroll in the offseason.
    Yeah, I've heard that before. And that's what they'll fix. And the offense will be better. And it won't matter a bit.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  13. #57
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Name a pitcher in the Reds rotation who could carry Weaver's cleats?
    If you are talking about 2007, Aaron Harang destroys him.
    If you are talking about 2008, Edinson Volquez destroys him.
    If you are talking about 2009, Johnny Cueto is on par with him.

    That's three. How many do you need?
    Go BLUE!!!

  14. #58
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    If you are talking about 2007, Aaron Harang destroys him.
    If you are talking about 2008, Edinson Volquez destroys him.
    If you are talking about 2009, Johnny Cueto is on par with him.

    That's three. How many do you need?
    Cueto is not on a par with Weaver. Volquez was last year.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  15. #59
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    The "details" are what makes the Reds the sorry franchise they are now. The Jays are dealing him mainly because he told them he wasn't signing a new contract and would test free agency. If he tells that to the team he has an emotional tie to, it would be moronic to deal your top talent for him to watch him walk after a year. There is no reason to even imagine he'd sign an extension here with no talent around him.

    I have no problem dealing prospects or young talent (other than Cueto) for the right deal, I have my own reservations about Bruce and there are probably several deals I would be willing to include him inm but only if it made sense going forward. Deling for a rental makes ZERO sense. This would be exactly the kind of mood I would expect from this FO though.

  16. #60
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    Re: Thursday July 30 Rumors

    3 pages of 1's and 0's wasted talking about a trade that would never happen as Halladay would kill it in an instant.

    oh joy.
    Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.


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