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Thread: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

  1. #826
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    If I'm pitching, I take my chances with anybody but EE over there.

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  3. #827
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    If I'm pitching, I take my chances with anybody but EE over there.
    Cool. Doesn't mean you have to overspend and throw away prospects.

  4. #828
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    By this time next year it will be having Drew Sutton over there while Rolen is on the DL.
    How many games did backups play while EE was injured this year? He has missed a lot of games to injury over his career as well, he just doesn't have any known chronic conditions.

  5. #829
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    $11MM and a top prospect. That's a pretty expensive stopgap.

    And if EE is so bad, then waive him.

    I can't recall anyone being too upset when they signed EE to a two-year deal during the off-season.

    All of a sudden, he's cancer. Strange. I wasn't a huge fan either, but I don't get the cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    $6M is the net between Rolen's and EE's salary next year.

  6. #830
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    For the record, I'd reached a point where I thought it was time for EdE to be replaced as well. I think Rolen's age, salary and health status made him a poor target. Having to include good arms in the deal to even up the money makes it that much worse. The Reds could have done a number of things with 3B that did not involve dealing Roenicke or Stewart and they could have done a number of things with Roenicke or Stewart that would have been a much bigger improvement to this team. Taking on money, dealing two of the better prospects in the system to become older and more injury prone is just horrible. The most likely scenario is that a season of full-time duty wears on Rolen's back and he becomes a part time guy again like he was in 2007 and 2008. That is hardly an improvement over EdE and certainly not worth more dollars or the opportunity cost of dealing Roenicke and Stewart. I also share the sentiment that his leadership skills may be over-rated. He was run out of Philly and Larussa banished him from St, Louis. I don't know the details of either situation, but the pattern does not scream team leader to me.

    My favorite part of all of this is Jocketty saying "I just decided to give in."
    Last edited by mth123; 08-01-2009 at 09:06 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  7. #831
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    How many games did backups play while EE was injured this year? He has missed a lot of games to injury over his career as well, he just doesn't have any known chronic conditions.
    EdE was hit by a pitch and had his wrist broken. I'd say going forward a chronic back condition is more likely to miss time.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #832
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post

    My favorite part of all of this is Jocketty saying "I just decided to give in."
    I heard Jocketty say that last night and it bothered me, too.

    To me, it meant that at some point he stopped thinking rationally and went with his emotions instead. During the interview, GG made mention of the fact that Jocketty and Scott Rolen are friends. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but it did give me the feeling that this was not a coldly calculated move, but rather one from the heart.

    I have this picture in my mind of Jocketty and Castellini commiserating together over cocktails, shaking their head. One of them says, "You know what we need? A guy like Scott Rolen on this team." Then they look at each other and the gears begin to grind. They just have to have him.

    I'm glad EE is not playing 3B any longer. I'm glad Scott Rolen is a Red. I share the concern that too much was given up for him, at the wrong time in Rolen's career, but I know that a trade cannot really be honestly evaluated until some time later. Young pitching is a roll of the dice, IMO. Somewhat because of talent, but even more because of injury.

  9. #833
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    My favorite part of all of this is Jocketty saying "I just decided to give in."
    Although I'm kind of neutral on this deal, I thought that was a lame thing to say.

    Does this mean that Walt doesn't want to win?

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  10. #834
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Young pitching is a roll of the dice, IMO.
    Good post AR I didn't exclude the rest to make you look bad, its just that I only want to address this point.

    This sentiment seems to be a prevailing one of those defending this deal. It's true that young pitching is a role of the dice. I just happen to think mid-30 year old ballplayers with chronic back conditions making tons of money are bigger roles of the dice.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #835
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    I'm amazed that so many people seem to have taken Walt at his word about "giving in." If I were selling somebody a real lemon of a car, or a really bad horse, I'd probably say something like that too: "You know, I hate to do this, I can hardly afford to do this, but I'm just going to give in and give you what you want. You've got me beat."

  12. #836
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds







    Still no uniform numbers yet.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  13. #837
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I'm amazed that so many people seem to have taken Walt at his word about "giving in." If I were selling somebody a real lemon of a car, or a really bad horse, I'd probably say something like that too: "You know, I hate to do this, I can hardly afford to do this, but I'm just going to give in and give you what you want. You've got me beat."
    Last year he signed Willy and said "he's our CF and lead-off hitter." Many on this board said it was only GM speak and not etched in stone. Then the organization proved him to be a man of his word. Walt said he gave in for various reasons and it sounds like he knew he overpaid. I believe him.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #838
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Last year he signed Willy and said "he's our CF and lead-off hitter." Many on this board said it was only GM speak and not etched in stone. Then the organization proved him to be a man of his word. Walt said he gave in for various reasons and it sounds like he knew he overpaid. I believe him.

    I don't believe a word of it.

  15. #839
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I'm amazed that so many people seem to have taken Walt at his word about "giving in." If I were selling somebody a real lemon of a car, or a really bad horse, I'd probably say something like that too: "You know, I hate to do this, I can hardly afford to do this, but I'm just going to give in and give you what you want. You've got me beat."
    So you think Walt thinks he ripped off the Jays?

    If he did think that, we're in bigger trouble than I thought.

  16. #840
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    EdE was hit by a pitch and had his wrist broken. I'd say going forward a chronic back condition is more likely to miss time.
    That isn't the first time EE has spent a chunk of time on the DL, such as last year. All I'm saying is that comments about backup 3B getting considerable time due to injury were true before. At least when Rolen is in there, we have someone who will do a better job, and Rolen has been healthy this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    My favorite part of all of this is Jocketty saying "I just decided to give in."
    Yea, that is the way deals work. You have to agree to the other team's asking price at some point. You forgot to mention the part about how they had reached a stalemate on the deal the night before. I still marvel at all the hand wringing over letting go of a "pitching prospect."

    Of course, if you have a bias toward "this guy is clueless," then you hear "well, I knew it was overpaying, but daggone it, I couldn't control myself. I just had to satiate my uncontrollable desire to obtain Scott Rolen."


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