Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

[Jpup]

What is the deal with Rolen wanting to be traded for "personal reasons?" That is 2 teams that he has asked to be traded from.

[traderumor]

What is the deal with Rolen wanting to be traded for "personal reasons?" That is 2 teams that he has asked to be traded from.

I think it has something to do with family.

[mth123]

That isn't the first time EE has spent a chunk of time on the DL, such as last year. All I'm saying is that comments about backup 3B getting considerable time due to injury were true before. At least when Rolen is in there, we have someone who will do a better job, and Rolen has been healthy this year.

Yea, that is the way deals work. You have to agree to the other team's asking price at some point. You forgot to mention the part about how they had reached a stalemate on the deal the night before. I still marvel at all the hand wringing over letting go of a "pitching prospect."

Of course, if you have a bias toward "this guy is clueless," then you hear "well, I knew it was overpaying, but daggone it, I couldn't control myself. I just had to satiate my uncontrollable desire to obtain Scott Rolen."

EdE played 139 games in 07 and 146 games in 08. Rolen played 112 games in 07 and 115 games in 08.

My bias is against dealing assets that could be dealt for other needs for a mid 30's player making 8 figures with a chronic back condition. Foolish me.

[Always Red]

Good post AR I didn't exclude the rest to make you look bad, its just that I only want to address this point.

This sentiment seems to be a prevailing one of those defending this deal. It's true that young pitching is a role of the dice. I just happen to think mid-30 year old ballplayers with chronic back conditions making tons of money are bigger roles of the dice.

I don't know Zach Stewart other than from what I read here- and he is very highly regarded on these pages.

I did say that I was concerned that too much was given up for Rolen at the wrong time in his career. Jocketty spoke last night about Rolen's health and said that the Reds were satisfied that he had healed properly from his surgeries.

I'm really not sure if if I am defending the trade or not. I think Edwin at 3B was a disaster that was not improving. I'm glad Rolen is on our team. I liked watching Roenicke pitch, and follow his progress.

If I had to say right now, I think the Reds probably gave up a little bit too much. But we really don't know, do we?

Is Alonso really that good? He was not really tearing it up when he got injured. Should it have been him instead of Stewart? Maybe that's a topic for another thread.

[nate]

To me, this deal has elements of like and dislike.

Likes

1. I still think Scott Rolen is a good player. Good average hitter, nice walk rate, good power, good glove.

2. I'm not big on "leadership first," I'm big on "talent first." I believe that Rolen provides both.

3. I was getting to the end of my rope with EE. I think he was maligned for silly reasons like "he doesn't care." By all accounts, he was a hard worker and really tried to improve his overall game. I think it was probably best for him and the Reds to move on.

Dislikes

1. I think Walt gave up too much in both Stewart and Roenicke. I don't care or subscribe to the "pitching prospects are a roll of the dice" or "the Reds can't develop pitching" theorems as to why they should be expendable. I mean, if the latter is true, might as well contract the team because we'll forever be sniffing the butts of the Cards, Astros, Cubs and Brewers with our bosom buddy, the Pirates.

2. Although BtP and TheNext44 have done some excellent work looking into the numbers and finances, I still worry about Walt being able to put a complimentary lineup around Rolen.

3. I'm worried about Rolen's injury history.

So it's kind of a net "push" for me. Emotionally, I think it's a good deal for the organization because people know who Rolen is. I'm sure George will be gushing tonight!

[mth123]

I don't know Zach Stewart other than from what I read here- and he is very highly regarded on these pages.

I did say that I was concerned that too much was given up for Rolen at the wrong time in his career. Jocketty spoke last night about Rolen's health and said that the Reds were satisfied that he had healed properly from his surgeries.

I'm really not sure if if I am defending the trade or not. I think Edwin at 3B was a disaster that was not improving. I'm glad Rolen is on our team. I liked watching Roenicke pitch, and follow his progress.

If I had to say right now, I think the Reds probably gave up a little bit too much. But we really don't know, do we?

Is Alonso really that good? He was not really tearing it up when he got injured. Should it have been him instead of Stewart? Maybe that's a topic for another thread.

I wouldn't have liked the deal with Alonso either, but I would have rather dealt EdE and Alonso as opposed to EdE, Roenicke and Stewart.

[Always Red]

I wouldn't have liked the deal with Alonso either, but I would have rather dealt EdE and Alonso as opposed to EdE, Roenicke and Stewart.

Yeah, we haven't seen much good pitching around these parts in years.

I have no problem with seeing if the pitching that this team scouts, drafts, signs and develops can actually do the job for the Reds before trading them away.

[dsmith421]

I think it has something to do with family.

Jeez, this actually makes Jocketty's decision to 'give in' dumber. How many teams besides the Reds are closer to Rolen's home than the Blue Jays? Seems like we had all the leverage in the deal and still ended up getting hosed.

[mth123]

Yeah, we haven't seen much good pitching around these parts in years.

I have no problem with seeing if the pitching that this team scouts, drafts, signs and develops can actually do the job for the Reds before trading them away.

Yeah, but pitching prospects are worth more than 1B prospects as a general rule and Stewart would have probably gone into next spring with more hype and market value than many on this board who only read the top ten lists prior to their fantasy drafts realize. So it isn't so much dealing him that I'm against as much as who they gave him up for.

I do think Alonso may be a special hitter though so its hard to say who would have more value.

[traderumor]

EdE played 139 games in 07 and 146 games in 08. Rolen played 112 games in 07 and 115 games in 08.

My bias is against dealing assets that could be dealt for other needs for a mid 30's player making 8 figures with a chronic back condition. Foolish me.

My bias is toward the Reds getting a major league lineup. They took a step toward that yesterday, and congratulation to Zach Stewart, who went from a "highly regarded pitching prospect" (boy, haven't I heard that before) to "future AL Cy Young Award winner" with this deal.

[kaldaniels]

Jeez, this actually makes Jocketty's decision to 'give in' dumber. How many teams besides the Reds are closer to Rolen's home than the Blue Jays? Seems like we had all the leverage in the deal and still ended up getting hosed.

Nah. The Jays had the leverage...as it appeared that the Reds were the ones actively looking to make the deal. Its not as if Rolen was going to be traded no matter what yesterday. The Jays, smartly or not, were willing to stand pat ala Roy H. That's leverage.

[mth123]

My bias is toward the Reds getting a major league lineup. They took a step toward that yesterday, and congratulation to Zach Stewart, who went from a "highly regarded pitching prospect" (boy, haven't I heard that before) to "future AL Cy Young Award winner" with this deal.

Some one else called him a future Cy Young winner. That wasn't me. I just think if the Reds are taking on a mid-30's player making $11 Million in 2010 that the Reds are entirely responsible for who has a high likelihood of missing a lot of time, it should have been the Jays adding the prospect for the Reds taking on that risk.

For the record, if both stay on the field, I think Rolen is better than EdE. But that doesn't really change the circumstances of this deal. The Reds are taking on a lot more risk here. If Stewart and Roenicke stink, the Jays aren't out much.

[jojo]

I think it has something to do with family.

Rolen was born in Evansville and grew up in Jasper, Indiana-roughly a scenic 3hr drive to Cincy. Cincy is about as close to "home" as he could get.

[GAC]

What's the most pressing problem for the Reds may depend on your point of view. If I were pitching for the Reds, prior to yesterday I'd have seen my most pressing problem as having EE at 3b.

Our pitcher's most pressing problem is the 1st inning, and simply being able to throw the ball over the plate on a consistent basis and quit issuing BBs. Hard for the guys playing behind them to defend that.....or balls leaving the yard.

As far as defense goes...what about the statues we have in the OF, and a CFer who, while speedy, takes terrible routes to balls? Who is going to be my SS after 2010?

EE, while a concern, would be a little bit further down on MY "to do" list for this team.

[mth123]

Nah. The Jays had the leverage...as it appeared that the Reds were the ones actively looking to make the deal. Its not as if Rolen was going to be traded no matter what yesterday. The Jays, smartly or not, were willing to stand pat ala Roy H. That's leverage.

The Reds could have done te same. Instead they "gave in."