Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

[UKFlounder]

Yeah, but "past performance is no guarantee of future results" either, as they say.

Don't we have to put that disclaimer on every move?

Anyway, as with all trades, only time will tell, but give Rolen's price tag and history of injury, I'm a bit skeptical. Hopefully Walt knows best.

Not really, pitching prospects are new, unproven, Rolens are vintage, classic and perhaps too old. But they have established worth.

Future promise isn't established worth.

Nice try though.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

No way a team should be sending prospects and taking on increased payroll for an aging player in this market.

Especially one of the 5 worst teams in baseball.

[Marc D]

Especially one of the 5 worst teams in baseball.

and poor allocation of resources like this will ensure they stay in that elite group.

[traderumor]

and past performance is no guarantee of future results. Its all perception and how much value the market says a tulip has. Right now prospects are the prized tulip in the MLB trading economy, potential future flame out is factored into the price.

No way a team should be sending prospects and taking on increased payroll for an aging player in this market.

Of course, that disclaimer is basically meaningless here, because there is data showing that past results are predictive for major league players. We all understand there are no guarantees when it comes to ballplayers, though. There is also a long established history of pitching prospect success rates. If there weren't then you have no basis to even have a discussion on this deal.

[westofyou]

Of course, that disclaimer is basically meaningless here, because there is data showing that past results are predictive for major league players. There is also a long established history of pitching prospect success rates. If there weren't then you have no basis to even have a discussion on this deal.

Bruce Chen is pitching tonight.....heading into the 1998 season, he was named the Atlanta Braves top prospect by Baseball America. That year, he was named the Southern League’s (AA) most outstanding pitcher.

Tonight he's a Royal

[Marc D]

Of course, that disclaimer is basically meaningless here, because there is data showing that past results are predictive for major league players. There is also a long established history of pitching prospect success rates. If there weren't then you have no basis to even have a discussion on this deal.

So if the well known pitching prospect success rates are to be taken as gospel then why would a team like Philly pass on a talent like Hallady in order to hold on to theirs?

Right wrong or indifferent prospects are the coin of the realm right now and Walt just wasted a couple. If he thinks they aren't actually going to be any good fine, they still have value out there as "top 50 pitching prospect" types. Put them to better use.

Rolen and his salary straight up for EE is a fair trade. If that's not good enough to get Rolen for whatever reason then so be it, we can finish well below .500 with him or without him.

[traderumor]

So if the well known pitching prospect success rates are to be taken as gospel then why would a team like Philly pass on a talent like Hallady in order to hold on to theirs?

Right wrong or indifferent prospects are the coin of the realm right now and Walt just wasted a couple. If he thinks they aren't actually going to be any good fine, they still have value out there as "top 50 pitching prospect" types. Put them to better use.

Rolen and his salary straight up for EE is a fair trade. If that's not good enough to get Rolen for whatever reason then so be it, we can finish well below .500 with him or without him.

The flip side of that is not letting a pitching prospect that the trading partner covets hold up a deal that brings an immediate transfusion of offensive and defensive talent to a club that is sorely lacking both at the position being filled. That sounds like what tipped the scales in completing the deal for Walt.

[Jpup]

Especially one of the 5 worst teams in baseball.

I'm not sure there not one of the 3 worst.

[Scrap Irony]

Isn't Moneyball's premise to do something everyone else isn't? Jocketty is valuing older, more expensive players over prospects. It's been his modus operandi before. And worked.

Has anyone else mentioned Mark McGwire? He was moved at 33 after a couple years of injuries and a bounce-back season. The years don't quite fit, but it may be what Jocketty's got in the back of his head here.

[Marc D]

The flip side of that is not letting a pitching prospect that the trading partner covets hold up a deal that brings an immediate transfusion of offensive and defensive talent to a club that is sorely lacking both at the position being filled. That sounds like what tipped the scales in completing the deal for Walt.

Sure it upgrades that position but that position doesn't exist in a vacum. The rest of the team still has major holes to plug and a disproportional amount of scarce resources were just squandered on 3B.

[cincrazy]

I don't have a problem with the deal, and I've been as hard on Walt and the rest around here as anyone. We gave up nothing of consequence on the current ML roster to land Scott Rolen. As much as everyone is upset about losing Stewart, I hardly heard the guy mentioned around these parts before the deal ever happened. He was hardly in the "untouchable" category. Roenicke is a bullpen arm and those are more than replacable, and EdE.... well, I'll take Rolen over him any day of the week.

I think, as others have mentioned, if Walt follows this deal up with more deals in the offseason, it can be a good deal. But if this is it, and this is all they're going to do to try and improve the offense for next year... well, then we're going to run into problems.

[TeamBoone]

Black Friday in Cincinnati Reds' Country by Illya Harrell (Scribe)
Illya HarrellScribe, Featured Columnist

When I heard we had traded Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Hairston, Josh Roenicke, and Zach Stewart, I thought of Walt Jocketty and Iron Mike. Then I thought of Tyson saying he "want[ed] to eat [Lennox Lewis'] children."
I now have the same feeling.

Mine is not directed toward the children of Lewis but rather to the kids of Jocketty, the General Manager of the Reds.
I never understood the rage one bellied to say such a despicable thing. I now know.

Yay. We got Scott Rolen. Jocketty traded two of next year's key pitchers and Encarnacion for his friend (cough, cough: man crush).

I didn't hide my feelings about this three weeks ago in this article. Back then, I was just talking an Edwin-for-Rolen straight-up deal.

In a nutshell, it said that their numbers were strikingly similar, with Rolen having the advantage defensively and Edwin having more power.

I wouldn't have done the deal straight-up, but read that article if you want to see my reasoning.

This article is going to whine like a 12-year-old girls FriendFace journal. Please just leave right now...all of you.

I hate Walt Jocketty! I know hate is a strong word. I don't use hate regarding people. Ever. Jocketty is not a human.

It is a wretched, vile, cretinous, worm-like being probably sent from outer space to ruin what could have been a contending team...for years to come.
Dusty currently has 10 guys on the DL. I've been harsh on Dusty in the past, but his managing compared to Jocketty's general managing is first-ballot, Hall-of-Fame material when held side by side.

Let's look at some of the things Jocketty said while in the booth with George Grande and Chris Welsh during Friday night's game

Okay, Walt told the Reds' announcers a few things. I tried to write down the exact quotes but may have been off by a word or two—so let's call these paraphrases but pretty bloody close to the horse's mouth.
Scott Rolen is "as good as Brooks Robinson."

Scott Rolen is "a franchise-type player who will anchor the infield with Brandon Phillips and Joey Votto for a long time."

Scott Rolen is "a player who wants to play here."

As good as Brooks Robinson? I'll just raise my eyebrows, shake my head and let you guys do the same. Might want to hurry and get a trash can or something, so you don't vomit on the carpet.

Walt thinks Rolen will anchor the infield for a long time? In the five seasons between 2004 and 2008, he only had one with more than 500 at-bats.
Hard to anchor an infield when you are too injured to play.

A player who wants to play here? Shouldn't any player who is going to a new team want to "play here"? Man, this article is hard to write without using expletives in every other sentence.

Oh yeah, and the Reds lost on Friday night. Our 39-year-old reliever, David Weathers, gave up back-to-back jacks to the Colorado seven- and eight-hole hitters. Wonder if Roenicke would have done that?

Wonder how Zach Stewart would have fared next year considering the Dayton Daily News has reported this: "Pitcher Edinson Volquez, scheduled for a simulated game today [July 31], didn’t complete it. He walked off the mound clutching his elbow. The Reds aren’t saying it—yet—but don’t be surprised if he has to undergo Tommy John surgery and will miss next year."
Guess we'll never know. Thanks, Walt.

Oh, but all is fine, the Reds now have Kip Wells in the bullpen. Yeah, that Kip Wells—the one who was cut by the Nationals because he was too inept to hold a spot in their pen.

So what do you do if you just traded for an injury-prone third baseman while you already have an injury-prone shortstop? If your name is Walt Jocketty, you trade uber-utility man, Jerry Hairston Jr. to the Yanks for a single-A catcher. This quote I know I got word for word: "We project him to be a starting catcher...possibly, someday."

Perhaps the greatest quote of the night came from Chris Welsh. This is golden. Somehow in regards to bringing Rolen over Welsh said, "[Rolen will] show Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips how to play the game."

Sorry guys and gals, I need to go steal some more of my granny's anti-anxiety medication.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...i-reds-country

[OnBaseMachine]

Me too. I'm too big of a Reds fan that I could just switch teams and pretend that I could feel the same emotion for a team like the Cards as I could for the Reds.. For that, the Reds are deeply ingrained in me.

And I know the same thing is true for OBM. OBM, you take everything the Reds do to heart, I don't know you personally, but Im about 100% sure that you could never care about the Cards or any other team half as much as you care about the Reds.

You may not know me personally but you nailed that. I could never switch teams, but I have considered taking a break for a while, which is something I thought I would never even consider. I'm sick and tired of watching the Reds shoot themselves in the foot over and over again. I slept on this trade and woke up hating it even more. The Reds paid an awful steep price for veteran leadership.

[Caveat Emperor]

Bruce Chen is pitching tonight.....heading into the 1998 season, he was named the Atlanta Braves top prospect by Baseball America. That year, he was named the Southern League’s (AA) most outstanding pitcher.

Tonight he's a Royal

Stop making sense.

[Marc D]

Isn't Moneyball's premise to do something everyone else isn't? Jocketty is valuing older, more expensive players over prospects. It's been his modus operandi before. And worked.

Has anyone else mentioned Mark McGwire? He was moved at 33 after a couple years of injuries and a bounce-back season. The years don't quite fit, but it may be what Jocketty's got in the back of his head here.

No doubt that's what he's got in the back of his head but they test for steroids now and he doesn't have the coaches he had in St Louis so I'm a little skeptical. Tavaras was the kind of move that probably would have worked for him back then as well.

If he's going for the lightning striking twice model I hope he plans on picking up a Pujols in the 13th round again soon. We could use it.