Schilling sure pitched a lot of innings in the minors and i thought Pete was a reliever first as well.
Thanks for the clear information.
Schilling sure pitched a lot of innings in the minors and i thought Pete was a reliever first as well.
Thanks for the clear information.
If we must have the world in black and white focus, in an "either/or" scheme, then sure we should have been selling. But the world rarely fits into such clear focus. Frankly, for all the talk of endless running in place and a culture of losing and such, it surprises me that the complexity of having to work within the constraints of a marketplace have folks lining up in one camp or another.
Frankly, I think the Marlins approach is dreadful and I say that fully aware that they've won two World Series since we have. I'm not interested in a so called "complete teardown." It's unnecessary and it will be brutal. Things aren't that black and white, IMO.
“In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"
The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things.
The Baseball Bookstore
http://tsc-sales.com/
http://tscsales.blogspot.com/
http://silverscreenbooks.com/
I have stated many times before that leadership and clubhouse qualities are over-rated, that talent comes first.
However...
No offense, (that second part about the coffee and facial hair still has me laughing, btw) but I am getting frustrated with people saying that Vaughn was a leader because he yelled at players or because he picked up a player by his collar and got in his face.
No one who tells those stories is saying that soley is what made Vaughn a leader. Those are told to exemplify Vaughn's leadership, not define it. I have no idea if Vaughn really was a leader or not, but if he was, it went much further than him yelling at people.
Heck, maybe it had nothing to do with him yelling at people, maybe the people telling those stories got it wrong, but he was still a leader in other ways. I have always said that true leaders lead by example, by being smart, professional and playing the game the right way. If Vaughn was a leader, I have a feeling that had more to do with it than with his temper.
Sorry, just been reading that line too many times, I had to get that off my chest.
Last edited by TheNext44; 08-02-2009 at 01:40 PM.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
I never said that I thought Vaughn was a leader because he yelled at people. I do believe though that he brought to this team the same thing that Scott Rolen will end up bringing, and that is a veteran presence that the younger players will look up to.
Look at most of the successful teams in baseball and you will find a mix of veterans and youth. The Yankees have Derek Jeter. The Red Sox have David Ortiz. Even the Rays last season had Troy Percival. I really don't think we would have a position player who would likely compare.
Considering his power surge, his teammate Ken Caminitti and his body break down and his persona as "angry leader" I could make all sorts of assumptions too.
I liked Greg Vaughn, but he's just another Deron Johnson in Reds lore, a guy who had a monster season on a team that didn't play in the post season.
Leadership is important once the talent base is in place. All the leadership in the world isn't going to fix the dearth of talent facing this organization right now.
Rolen could be able to lead and inspire men on par with Churchill, Gahndi and Roosevelt but it won't make Tavaras a good ball player.
I can't imagine any of us have to knowledge to make such an assertion as above unless we were there in the clubhouse for the 1999 season. I loved Larkin and Vaughn, but to start breaking down the leadership differences between the 2 without actually being there seems pointless.
I agree with you down the line on your post with the exception of the comment about Volquez. I am not sure how to look up the data, but from my experience a vast majority of pitchers who have had TJ come back as strong or STRONGER. Shoulder surgery, I see your point. TJ, I have to disagree.
Cedric 3/24/08It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
This thread has reached the 1,000 post threshold. If you want to start a new discussion, feel free to in another thread.
Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |