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Thread: Why do we care?

  1. #1
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    Why do we care?

    You spend years watching prospects grow as players, watching them turn into solid players and even great players just to watch them dumped.

    Let me ask you why do you care? I seriously have no answers for myself. How do you guys feel about it? Zach Stewart going from a good pitcher to a guy I simply loved to being something I will never be able to watch if he turns out to be good.

    Do you guys have the same feelings as me when it comes to these guy? Its like a part of you is ripped out. Makes me question why I even care enough to check their numbers daily. Todd Frazier for all I know next year could be in the Yankees farm system or the Braves or the Mets.

    What say you?

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  3. #2
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    Re: Why do we care?

    I can't believe they are giving up Stewart. I just called one of the Reds minor league pitching coaches that Stewart pitched for and he called this trade "off the wall nuts."

    I would rather have given up Alonso than Stewart.

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    Re: Why do we care?

    They are assets, nothing more. Like to follow them. Enjoy the success, but no need for the emotion. It clouds judgment and keeps teams from making moves to help the parent club. (Which is the goal of minor leaguers.)
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  5. #4
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    Re: Why do we care?

    I care because I'm a Reds fan.

    It hurts because I'm a Reds fan.

    I feel better because I'm a Bats fan.

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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    I can't believe they are giving up Stewart. I just called one of the Reds minor league pitching coaches that Stewart pitched for and he called this trade "off the wall nuts."

    I would rather have given up Alonso than Stewart.
    I dont know about that because I would hope Alonso could get us a pitcher ala laporta but after this I really am afraid of what they would trade him for.

    I'm really just talking like what does it feel like for you guys when someone like a Stewart, gets dealt. I feel like someone kicking me in the groin and then trying to help me up.

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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    They are assets, nothing more. Like to follow them. Enjoy the success, but no need for the emotion. It clouds judgment and keeps teams from making moves to help the parent club. (Which is the goal of minor leaguers.)
    Fair enough but you dont ever see them as anything other than useless guys? You dont care if they ever play for the Reds?

    There is a handful of guys right now I would never want the reds to trade unless I'm pretty much blown away given how the Reds have to build a club. when one of those guys go its brutal to me.

  8. #7
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    I can't believe they are giving up Stewart. I just called one of the Reds minor league pitching coaches that Stewart pitched for and he called this trade "off the wall nuts."

    I would rather have given up Alonso than Stewart.
    Thats exactly how I feel. The difference between Stewart and Alonso as prospects is incredibly small. The difference is, its much easier to find a solid first baseman on the market than it is a solid starting pitcher. Zach Stewart was too much to give up by himself for Scott Rolen in my opinion.

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    Re: Why do we care?

    Alonso plays one position and its the position your best player plays. Giving up your best pitching prospect for a 34 year old with a bad back...oh brother. I liked the idea of getting Rolen because I thought this was a good time to start adding players for 2010, but not for this. Reminds me of B.J. Ryan for Juan Guzman.

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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Thats exactly how I feel. The difference between Stewart and Alonso as prospects is incredibly small. The difference is, its much easier to find a solid first baseman on the market than it is a solid starting pitcher. Zach Stewart was too much to give up by himself for Scott Rolen in my opinion.
    The problem I have with Stewart is that even if he doesnt pan out as a starter he was still very likely to be a back end reliever. That was what they were even saying out of college. Its not like he came from no where and had a good year.

    BTW doug I dont know too much about other guys farms really but did any bigger than Stewart pitching prospects get dealt today?

    why do I feel like if we added some other prospects we could have Victor Martinez or Cliff Lee. I feel like we took the Reds route with a prospect like we do with contracts. Instead of going after the big guy on a 6 year deal we took the lower guy and gave him an over paid 3 year deal.

  11. #10
    I can do the Hully Gully IowaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    it's also the philosophy of this trade that is maddening. I'm all for getting better players but to give up 3 younger guys, including 2 young (at the very least) decent pitching prospects for a 34 year old oft-injured 3B is not the direction the 2009 Reds should be headed in. It may keep them out of last place this year but still the wrong direction
    More often than not, when someone is telling me a story all I can think about is that I can't wait for them to finish so that I can tell my own story that's not only better, but also more directly involves me.

  12. #11
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    The problem I have with Stewart is that even if he doesnt pan out as a starter he was still very likely to be a back end reliever. That was what they were even saying out of college. Its not like he came from no where and had a good year.

    BTW doug I dont know too much about other guys farms really but did any bigger than Stewart pitching prospects get dealt today?

    why do I feel like if we added some other prospects we could have Victor Martinez or Cliff Lee. I feel like we took the Reds route with a prospect like we do with contracts. Instead of going after the big guy on a 6 year deal we took the lower guy and gave him an over paid 3 year deal.
    In my opinion, Zach Stewart was the best pitching prospect moved during the deadline followed closely by Jason Knapp. The difference is Knapp is on the DL with shoulder issues and in Low A.

    I mean if the Reds wanted to really shake things up, why didn't they just offer Alonso, Stewart, Roenicke, EE, Stubbs/Heisey and Todd Frazier for Halladay and Rolen and just gotten it done (heck, take out Frazier and add Bailey if they want)?

  13. #12
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    In my opinion, Zach Stewart was the best pitching prospect moved during the deadline followed closely by Jason Knapp. The difference is Knapp is on the DL with shoulder issues and in Low A.

    I mean if the Reds wanted to really shake things up, why didn't they just offer Alonso, Stewart, Roenicke, EE, Stubbs/Heisey and Todd Frazier for Halladay and Rolen and just gotten it done (heck, take out Frazier and add Bailey if they want)?
    Thats really how I feel.

    Considering what the Indians got for Lee and Martinez I think its safe to say we could have added just a bit more and got so much more value in return.

    Every year we see these deals with the money and now we are doing it with prospects.

  14. #13
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    Re: Why do we care?

    1. I don't like giving up Stewart at all but I'd much rather keep Alonso.
    2. I loved EE in the minors and when he came up but have had to give up on the idea that he will ever realize his talent in Cinti., mostly b/c he simply is not a 3bman.
    3. Rolen makes us better for 2010.
    4. Rolen allows our guys to pitch inside freely to righthanders, knowing a pulled ball to the left side may actually get caught and the play turned.
    5. I'm not sure if this deal makes it more or less likely we see Todd Frazier in Cinti. WJ is saying he wants to keep Rolen beyond 2010; that would seem to take Todd F. out of the 3d. base sweepstakes. On the other hand, maybe they think he actually can hold down LF or he'll become that ideal supersub after Alonso moves to 1b and Votto to LF.
    6. I like the fact it wasn't Stubbs or Heisey. I like the fact the pitcher wasn't Homer. I think the difference between Rolen and EE great enough, and the problem presented by EE's lack of a position significant enough, that you weren't going to make this deal without a significant prospect--read, somebody with more upside than Roenicke.

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    Re: Why do we care?

    Certainly think that talk that Frazier is a 3rd baseman is all but finished when it comes to him playing there for the Redsd.

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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    Certainly think that talk that Frazier is a 3rd baseman is all but finished when it comes to him playing there for the Redsd.
    Yep he will be limited to spot starts or when Rolen goes to the dl.

    I cannot get over Stewart being in that trade. I may need a break.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"


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