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Thread: Why do we care?

  1. #46
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verins View Post
    Just thinking out loud here. I find it odd that no contenders could put together a deal for arguably the best pitcher in baseball in Roy Halladay because Ricciardi's asking price was too high. Then Walt comes around and deals our best pitching prospect, plus EE and Roenicke. I understand that it's not the same situation but for some reason that sticks in my mind.

    Also, in my opinion, the worst part of the whole situation is that Walt made the move because he wanted to bring his boy back, and Cast wanted to sell some tickets and make it look like the Reds are trying to improve to the casual fans. This deal just stinks of making a move for popular opinion and not thinking of the clubs future.
    Bravo. I see this is just post number three. Feel free to post more.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  3. #47
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Thats exactly how I feel. The difference between Stewart and Alonso as prospects is incredibly small. The difference is, its much easier to find a solid first baseman on the market than it is a solid starting pitcher. Zach Stewart was too much to give up by himself for Scott Rolen in my opinion.
    Spot on, dude. Alonso is skilled and probably redundant. Good pitching is never ever redundant.

  4. #48
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    Re: Why do we care?

    I'm disappointed in the Reds giving up two ML ready power arms. I was not confident that the Reds development staff could turn Stewart into a quality starting pitching prospect but I loved his stuff and his arm. I was looking forward to seeing if he could progress into a starter and exposing my pessimism. I think he had a very good chance to be a great reliever in the majors in as little as next year. Roenicke had a great power arm and looked promising in Cincinnati.
    To me, this trade shows the lack of continuity in the organization's plans. A few years ago our bullpen was awful, with a bunch of soft tossers. So we traded, drafted and developed a nice set of arms - Burton, Massey, Roenicke, Fisher, Stewart, etc. Well I guess our bullpen needs no new power arms, because we traded away arguably our two of our three best fastball arms (Massey's FB is still the best). If injuries strike, where is our depth?
    It is tough for a fan following the Reds' minor leagues to understand what the Reds want to do with their player development program.

  5. #49
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Yea they just simply traded Stewart way too early. Brutal. Stewarts value wasnt going to go down if he didnt become a starter from the context of this trade. I cant imagine how ticked we are going to be when free agency rolls around and we see some guys signing for less than Rolens contract. Going to bring back some more ills.

  6. #50
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Couple of thoughts that are not based on fact: It appears, based on WJ's comment that the Reds eventually "gave in" to the Blue Jays on the players involved in the deal that most likely, as had been speculated, the Reds had offered Encarnacion and Alonso and Toronto held out until the last hours for Stewart before the Reds "gave in."

    Secondly, this trade makes so little sense from a long-term perspective that I am guessing there was pressure from ownership to improve the club at the big league level now, regardless of the cost. This last 10 game stretch may have cost the Reds Zach Stewart for the next 10 years. I can picture Castellini telling WJ, "I don't care how many minor leaguers you have to give up, just get us a hitter."

    One last thing in reference to an earlier post: No comparison at all between Zach Stewart and Travis Wood in terms of their stuff. One has big league all-star stuff, 94-95 with a wicked slider, and the other has fringy major league stuff with an excellent change-up.
    Last edited by redsof72; 08-01-2009 at 02:35 PM.

  7. #51
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    If the marching orders came from Castellini, a reasonable enough assumption, then he was not lying the other day. We did know the Reds were out of it before he did.

    Bakermetrics For Owners: If I hold the paper upside down my team is in second place. Yay!

  8. #52
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    If we didn't love them, we wouldn't care.

    I don't care about the opinions on the moves, we all have them, we voice them...I'm just glad there's still a passion for this team. Our loyalty is going to payoff someday...
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 08-01-2009 at 02:57 PM.

  9. #53
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    I can picture Castellini telling WJ, "I don't care how many minor leaguers you have to give up, just get us a hitter."
    Unfortunately, I think something just like that happened again. Bob has done it before and he will do it again. The problem is, that kind of stuff doesn't work when you spend $70-75M on payroll. Maybe when you get into the $90M area you can start making decisions like that because its easier to replace talent that way.... but you just can't replace talent when your payroll is as low as it is.

  10. #54
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Unfortunately, I think something just like that happened again. Bob has done it before and he will do it again. The problem is, that kind of stuff doesn't work when you spend $70-75M on payroll. Maybe when you get into the $90M area you can start making decisions like that because its easier to replace talent that way.... but you just can't replace talent when your payroll is as low as it is.
    Pretty much spot on.

    The Yankees can trade Stewarts for Rolens. St. Louis can even get by trading Wallaces for Hollidays. St. Louis doesnt go and blow like 30 million on fringe players though. Combine that with us basically having to fill up a major league roster with the remaining 40 million you really have to be spot on with your talent evaluations. I'm not seeing us going in the right direction.

    Stewart has value and if he peaks you should deal him if you think you can get a good deal. The Reds I guess think he's peak, but even as a reliever prospect adding him and Ronicke both to the deal is probably way too much considering how it hand cuffs us in other ways.

    I'd be willing to bet if the Reds offered Edwin for Rolen straight up in the winter the Blue Jays would have taken it. We waited and not only because of some numbers I dont think Rolen is going to repeat offensively, we had to pay even more in terms of talent. Just a bad deal all around.

    When John Fay is calling the deal a pretty big risk you know its bad.
    Last edited by GIDP; 08-01-2009 at 03:35 PM.

  11. #55
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    On the first day of class in MLB GM 101 written on the board is "Do not fall in love with prospects." Fans would be wise to do the same.

  12. #56
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    When John Fay is calling the deal a pretty big risk you know its bad.
    Maybe Fay doesn't know what he is talking about here, either, but just so happens to agree with you, so you figure even he can see what you do?

  13. #57
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    On the first day of class in MLB GM 101 written on the board is "Do not fall in love with prospects." Fans would be wise to do the same.
    If we would have traded Homer Baily 3 years ago for someone comparable to what Rolen is today I'd guess that we would look back and say that it was a good deal.We might even look back and see a few winning season to.

  14. #58
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Maybe Fay doesn't know what he is talking about here, either, but just so happens to agree with you, so you figure even he can see what you do?
    I said that more in response that he worded it strongly something he never does it seems.

  15. #59
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    If we would have traded Homer Baily 3 years ago for someone comparable to what Rolen is today I'd guess that we would look back and say that it was a good deal.We might even look back and see a few winning season to.
    So you are saying Scott Rolen is a 30 game improvement?

  16. #60
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Why do we care?

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    So you are saying Scott Rolen is a 30 game improvement?
    Actually I was just supporting the idea of not falling in love with prospects.I assume your talking about the playoff comment.In regards to that I'm only saying that we would have been better.Not sure where your getting 30 games better from.


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