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View Poll Results: Walt graded out as...

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  • A

    4 3.70%
  • B

    24 22.22%
  • C

    28 25.93%
  • D

    27 25.00%
  • F

    25 23.15%
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Thread: How did Walt do?

  1. #16
    I can do the Hully Gully IowaRed's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Actually it's quite simple to argue with the Rolen deal. Yeah the Reds are likely a slightly better team with Rolen, if/when he's healthy in the very short term. So they might maintain their lead over the Pirates and stay out of last place but I wouldn't bet on it. It probably raises their payroll while unloading young players for a 34 year old with recent back and shoulder problems. Easy F for me based on that, the Reds should be making the exact opposite types of trades. Getting rid of bigger salaries for younger players, make that an F-
    More often than not, when someone is telling me a story all I can think about is that I can't wait for them to finish so that I can tell my own story that's not only better, but also more directly involves me.

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  3. #17
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    F -

    I want him fired immediately. When Zach Stewart and Josh Roenicke are succeeding at the major league level while we watch our pitchers come up short, Adam Rosales at 3B and Scott Rolen on the DL we'll wonder why he did this.

    This is worse than signing Willy.
    This. Jocketty's a joke. I could do better in my sleep.

  4. #18
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    I could do better in my sleep.

  5. #19
    Member wally post's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    This is very rough. What depresses me is that I can see dusty saying in a meeting "we need more leadership" and this being the response. I ahve never posted neg against Dusty, but it appears to me that this is the perfect storm. Walt gets "his guy" and Dusty gets to pass the blame and BC nods. IF we enter the playoffs in 2010 then this was good. If we don't then the entire bunch should be fired.

    In all honesty, I would've preferred a blood-letting of coaches than this.

  6. #20
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    C+

    Did not make deals to "cut payroll", perhaps that is in indication of the health of the organization.

    Harang/ Arroyo/ Cordero can all be moved fairly easily in August.....
    that could move it to a B or higher if 1 or 2 of those get moved for some value.

    Weather/ Rhodes could be moved as well....but should be only if value can be returned.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  7. #21
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Quote Originally Posted by wally post View Post
    This is very rough. What depresses me is that I can see dusty saying in a meeting "we need more leadership" and this being the response. I ahve never posted neg against Dusty, but it appears to me that this is the perfect storm. Walt gets "his guy" and Dusty gets to pass the blame and BC nods. IF we enter the playoffs in 2010 then this was good. If we don't then the entire bunch should be fired.

    In all honesty, I would've preferred a blood-letting of coaches than this.
    You've summarized my view on these moves much better than I could have. All I can say is that it had better work out in '10.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  8. #22
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Walt pooped down his pants on this one.

    Good intentions, stupid execution.

  9. #23
    '92 Les Paul Custom Az Red's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    These trades scream of treading water. They didn't sell off the high priced players to reload and they didn't sell off the farm to make a run this year. I'm personnaly glad they didn't sell off the farm 'cause there is no run in this year's Reds. It kind of strikes me as a ploy to sell a few more tickets in Rolen. Yes, he is in the clubhouse to lead the team. As long as he stays off the DL that should work out fine. But, the rest of the team, front office included, is still treading water.

    Who falls next if the Pirates swim past the Reds?
    Hope Springs Eternal

  10. #24
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    I think we should've given up a package for Rolen similar to what we received in the Harang and Arroyo deals today...er...uh...nevermind.

  11. #25
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    As with most trades, this one is "incomplete" until we see what Rolen does. Indirectly, it's incomplete until we see if the players we traded become pieces we could've used.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #26
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    I don't think we need to wait Nate. If Rolen is healthy and plays like a stud it will be nice, but his dollars still put this team in a situation where the only road to success is Bruce and Bailey fulfilling their potential. If that happens, it won't be this trade that made the team a contender.

    As for the players given up, we don't need to see how they perform to see if the Reds could have used them. They could be used right now in trade for something else that isn't an established injury risk, addresses a bigger need and doesn't cost 8 figures.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  13. #27
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't think we need to wait Nate. If Rolen is healthy and plays like a stud it will be nice, but his dollars still put this team in a situation where the only road to success is Bruce and Bailey fulfilling their potential. If that happens, it won't be this trade that made the team a contender.
    Well, the "ifs" are why I'm waiting. I said in another post that I think this means any other roster moves will come via trade rather than FA.

    As for the players given up, we don't need to see how they perform to see if the Reds could have used them. They could be used right now in trade for something else that isn't an established injury risk, addresses a bigger need and doesn't cost 8 figures.
    Maybe. Although any one of them could have a mysterious garden accident/spontaneously human combustion or somesuch.

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  14. #28
    Member Marty and Joe's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Voted C.

    I like the Balentien deal the best. Low risk, potential upside reward.

    Hairston - that appears to be a salary dump.

    Rolen - don't like it on the surface given what we gave up in the young arms, but, if he stays healthy and other things are coming, this could work out just fine - but, I don't like that # of 'if's' when taking on salary. I think a lot more weight was placed on intangibles with this one than we may know.

  15. #29
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    This one is bad. Its bad because of $$$$.

    And the money aspect is bad because of Zach Stewart.

    Aside from Stewart, the Reds will pay $6 mm more for a better third baseman in 2010. It's a lot...but you pay to get better. OK.

    The tough part comes on putting a $ amount on the prospects. That's the hard part.

    So I think of the farm system as a venture capital fund, where you make a lot of bets early on, and you only expect a few to pay out big. You make big bets (high picks) and small bets (lower picks).

    Where's the payoff? The payoff is in the control years, mainly pre-arb, and only if you can get above replacement performance in those years. When you bring up a player, its like taking one of those venture capital projects public.

    So what are Zach Stewart's pre-arb years worth? The best way is with a scenario/probablity matrix. Assign a probability to each level of expected perfomance and look up the market value of that performance. Weighted average...and you have it.

    I'm not going to do that, because I do have a life. But let's just say as a central scenario, Zach is an average reliever in 2010-2012. (I think its very conservative...he's shown to be better). What does that cost in the open market? $2 mm, $3 mm?. (How much does weathers make). You'll pay Stewart $400-$500k for those years, so he's worth roughly $1.5 mm per year or a total of $4.5 mm.
    If he's a starter...its more. If he hurts his arm and never pitches again..its less.

    I'm not the minor league expert here, but everything looks like the kid had an excellent chance to be an average to above average player in those pre-arb years.

    Walt just threw away a ton of money, IMO.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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  16. #30
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: How did Walt do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    We lost assets while failing to address any of our primary needs. I give him a D because at least he tried....
    I agree. Balentien was my favorite move and Rolen was my least. If we are going after Rolen you had better address SS and LF in August or during the Winter.
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

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    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L


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