How did Walt do?

[edabbs44]

age

He is 34, not 44.

[redsfandan]

So a 35 year old 3rd baseman can't have an .800 OPS?

[edabbs44]

So a 35 year old 3rd baseman can't have an .800 OPS?

Not if Jocketty acquired him.

[redsfandan]

Ah that's right. Everything Walt touches turns to turd. Sorry guys, I forgot about that.

[nate]

Not if Jocketty acquired him.

Ah that's right. Everything Walt touches turns to turd. Sorry guys, I forgot about that.

Silly arguments.

I think it's obvious Rolen, like nearly all players, will experience a decline. However, looking at his stats, he's been pretty solid over the last three years. His LD rate is up, he gets on base and he has a nice glove. Yes, he will decline, the question is how much during his Reds tenure.

I like having him on the team. I'm just not sure it was worth the treasure.

[edabbs44]

Silly arguments.

I think it's obvious Rolen, like nearly all players, will experience a decline. However, looking at his stats, he's been pretty solid over the last three years. His LD rate is up, he gets on base and he has a nice glove. Yes, he will decline, the question is how much during his Reds tenure.

I like having him on the team. I'm just not sure it was worth the treasure.

That is obvious, however the argument is that his stats are in decline.

[TRF]

I posted this in the minor league forum, but it applies here too.

I watched and read all weekend. I avoided the firestorm of comments, tried to distance myself a bit, and form some rational thoughts.

This was without a doubt the dumbest trade deadline deal I have ever seen the Reds make. It trumps "The Trade".

Thing is, it's totally in character for Walt Jocketty. One can look no further than his past trades. he almost never trades for a young player, and almost always targets veterans. Mark Mulder won 22 games as a Cardinal. Dan Haren has won 69 games and counting. Kiko Calero has turned into a solid reliever, stellar in fact this year. Daric Barton may never be more than a bench player, but that's still quite a haul.

Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire, Eckstein, Sanders, Walker, Juan Encarnacion, Kennedy.

Walt Jocketty prefers a veteran team. Plain and simple. You have to an other worldly talent like a Pujols or Rick Ankiel as a pitcher to crack his 25 man roster.

2008 may not have been Dusty's team, but it most certainly wasn't Walt's. I doubt we see anyone other than WT in CF next year, Bruce will be in right, But I think Walt would prefer someone else. I predict Gomes gets a two year deal in the off-season and is the starting LF. Rolen will be extended at least two years, maybe 3. We could see BP shift to SS, but I bet we'll see another vet SS brought in.

Your 2010 Reds... well just look at tonight's lineup and add Bruce in RF. Meanwhile the Reds best prospects will either be traded for more veteran goodness or rot on the vine.

As for the JHJ and Manuel trades. meh. Getting rid of JHJ is fine, but I'd rather have him patrolling CF than WT. Wladimir Balentien has potential, but honestly, that's all I have ever read about him... He has potential. He has to play however. Everyday. Nix needs to be the 4th OF the rest of the season, or just put him in CF.

2009 is done. 2010 needs to be addressed NOW.

If the Reds see Frazier as a 2B, then move BP to SS now. Sutton can handle 2B, at least for the remainder of the season.

And none of these moves addressed the pitching. In fact, it weakened the teams strength without significantly addressing the offense.

He get s a D from me, though I didn't vote. Dusty gets an F because he won't play Balentien, and because he continues to play WT.

FAIL all the way around. This organization is just as dumb as when DanO was around.

[redsfandan]

Yeah nate, it's silly. But so is saying he can't manage an .800 OPS when he's doing it this season. I'm not saying that I think he'll be the same player he was 5 years ago cuz he isn't that player now. Just that the decline has already happened. I think his OPS should be right around .800 next year. Abs are the bigger question. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the next decline to not happen until he's close to 40.

[princeton]

looking at his stats, he's been pretty solid over the last three years.

I see a guy getting nicked a lot, like older players often do. like Jr did, like Larkin did. secondary numbers are one thing, but counting stats DO MATTER. if a top player is not on the field, it hurts the team.

Terry Pendleton and Brooks Robinson had their big declines going from 34 to 35. David Ortiz is supposedly 32 but probably more like 35. with Larkin, I think that he really dropped as he turned 36. maybe Rolen will be like Barry. but time will catch up. c'est la vie.

[BRM]

This was without a doubt the dumbest trade deadline deal I have ever seen the Reds make. It trumps "The Trade".

Of course the biggest difference between this deal and The Trade is that the Reds received actual major league talent in return this time around.

[dfs]

F is too high.
The Hairston deal is a decent move and Manuel to Seattle is understandable if unfortunate.

The Rolen deal is putrid beyond belief. I can't reconcile that trade with the reds succeeding any time soon.

[redsfandan]

F is too high.
The Hairston deal is a decent move and Manuel to Seattle is understandable if unfortunate.

The Rolen deal is putrid beyond belief. I can't reconcile that trade with the reds succeeding any time soon.

How was that a decent move? If we had actually saved some money it would be different but he wasn't getting that much money anyway.

[nate]

Yeah nate, it's silly. But so is saying he can't manage an .800 OPS when he's doing it this season.

No, I don't think that's silly in any way, shape or form. It's a legit question to ask and have a discussion about. Yes, Rolen is an excellent player but he is older and a decline would be natural. Throw in his injury history and we _could_ have an OPS of .800, but in how many games? 120? 100?

It's not a silly proposition.

I'm not saying that I think he'll be the same player he was 5 years ago cuz he isn't that player now. Just that the decline has already happened. I think his OPS should be right around .800 next year. Abs are the bigger question. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the next decline to not happen until he's close to 40.

Again, I say it's a reasonable concern.

[redsfandan]

I see a guy getting nicked a lot, like older players often do. like Jr did, like Larkin did. secondary numbers are one thing, but counting stats DO MATTER. if a top player is not on the field, it hurts the team.

Terry Pendleton and Brooks Robinson had their big declines going from 34 to 35. David Ortiz is supposedly 32 but probably more like 35. with Larkin, I think that he really dropped as he turned 36. maybe Rolen will be like Barry. but time will catch up. c'est la vie.

Of course you could also look at players like Chipper Jones and Mike Lowell who are still productive and are both older than Rolen.

[nate]

That is obvious, however the argument is that his stats are in decline.

I think it's a little hard to say with the stats due to how many games he's missed. Certainly, they look a bit resurgent but he's missed a lot of playing time. I just don't think it's unreasonable to be concerned about him declining.