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Thread: Scott Rolen traded to the Reds

  1. #526
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    I have to think that the Reds gavee up on Edwin, decided he had to go no matter what they got in return, and thought bringing in a player of the stature of Rolen would reap benefits in the future. I doubt we'll see Rolen much longer than next year, but he'll bring some veteran presence (there's that phrase again) to the team and he can lead by example.

    I'm really not into slitting my wrists over losing a third sacker who was error prone and never lived up to his potential. I wish Edwin well, but I'm glad to see him go because all anyone was ever going to see was what he was. As for the other two players...who know what they might become. Remember we released some relievers who have done well, but we released some who have been stinkers, too. You never know, but you do know that Rolen will be stellar while he's here. Injuries? Wasn't Edwin out for two months? How about the RedsZone darling Volquez? It happens even when you're young and is a part of the game.
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  3. #527
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I dunno, the hand wringing over Zach Stewart kind of reminds me of Zach Ward hand wringing a few years back http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=ward--001zac

    Then again, it could BJ Ryan, part deuex. Just never know with pitching prospects, do ya?
    The only thing Ward and Stewart had in common was a lot of ground balls. Stewart has two legit plus pitches and success in the high minors.

  4. #528
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Anybody know what the response on Bluejayzone is like?
    I'm guessing they're wondering why they gave up a guy having a rebound season for a guy hitting .200 that can't throw the ball to first base

  5. #529
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Anybody know what the response on Bluejayzone is like?
    I was just wondering the same thing!
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  6. #530
    All dyslexics must untie!
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Jeff Russell for Buddy Bell 2.0
    I still rank an aged Bell as the Red's #1 all-around 3rd baseman in the modern era

    (Heine Groh doesn't qualify, and neither does Peter Edward or Doggie)

    Rolen has a chance to be #2...Spuds had better not look behind him
    Never overlook the obvious

  7. #531
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over the loss of a pitching prospect, especially a Reds one. I've been a Reds fan for the better part of 30 years and Trevor Hoffman is the only guy I can think of who went somewhere else and really had that much of a significant career. And, well, you all know what happened with the guys that stayed. Most of them sucked.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  8. #532
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If we couldn't do it now why would we be able to in December?
    You probably never will. You'll have to give them away, but that's the problem with early extended contracts. They seldom work out, a lesson Wayne didn't learn.
    www.ris-news.com
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  9. #533
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Alonso + EdE would have been a better deal than this one.
    Really? I mean, I realize they are both highly questionable deals. But I would call the Alonso + EE deal "unbelievably awful" and this one just plain "bad."
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  10. #534
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    His HOF Monitor score is only 64. Mind you, the HOF Monitor doesn't measure how good a player really is/was, only how his stats compare to the average member of the Hall of Fame. Rolen is a long way from the score of 100 of the "average" member of the HOF and, at age 34, I don't like his chances at this point.
    Right, who knows with the BBWAA anymore. I probably should have prefaced that by stating he's a Hall of Famer in my book. When I look at third sackers, Rolen's higher on that list than most people believe. The last time I looked closely at third basemen, I had Rolen pegged as 11th all-time which is easily good enough for the Hall for me.

    Of course, the three guys I have pegged in the 8-9-10 slots (Santo, Hack and Groh) aren't in the Hall either so who knows.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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  11. #535
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    OPS for NL LFers
    2009-776
    2008-802
    2007-834
    2006-837


    Edwin Career: 793.

    There's not a big difference.
    Reds can't get by with a league average LF. They have that now. They need a big bat there. And who knows how well EE would play it.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  12. #536
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    How highly regarded was Bud Smith when he was part of the package that landed Rolen in St. Louis?

    I'm not happy about giving up Stewart, but let's be realistic about the range of possibilities. It's not just makes the majors versus doesn't. He could end up as a back of the rotation guy. He could be a middle reliever. While the odds of him making the majors is pretty high at this point, that's still a long way from being a big contributor.

    Don't get me wrong, I loathe this trade -- but it's because EE will be a very cost effective 3B/DH for the next few years and because Roenicke is an effective middle reliever right now. Even if Stewart doesn't pan out at all, the Jays are likely going to get more value than the Reds.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #537
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Good comp. I liked the Buddy Bell years. Now it's time to find Bo Diaz.
    Where were you? Jock got "Bo Diaz" last winter in a trade for Farney
    Never overlook the obvious

  14. #538
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The only thing Ward and Stewart had in common was a lot of ground balls. Stewart has two legit plus pitches and success in the high minors.
    Yea, I knew that is what you would say. Folks were pretty high on Ward and upset when we traded him for "f'ing Kyle Lohse," and you now have the benefit of hindsight on Ward.

    I respect your knowledge of the Reds farm system, but seriously, the hyperbole you've been throwing around about Stewart in this thread sounds like agent talk.

  15. #539
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    "Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful..."

    --from the Dally Affirmations of Walter Jocketty


    The problem with wanting the Reds to make deals are the brain donors for the Reds who will be making the deals. Zach Stewart's inclusion alone makes this a horrendous, terrible, putrid, steaming pile of...no, words really can't discribe how lothsome this is.

    I don't care if Scott Rolen wins three straight triple crowns and Zach Stewart washes out, this is still a mind-bogglingly stupid trade to make. The fact that they seem to be planning on re-upping Rolen just magnifies their incompetence.

    Scott Rolen's numbers are in decline and he's showing every sign of physical breakdown - no matter how great he was in the past - you do not take him for a rental or invest (waste) future resourceso n him. If they extend him for another two years and they get 162 games total from him, it's more than they deserve to expect (and they have no reason to believe that any of those games will be near peak performance either).

    And to give up Zach Stewart in a deal like this sinks it well below the depths of the Taveras signing in terms of stupidity alone. Yeah, he's just a unproven prospect, but he's a TALENTED YOUNG PITCHER -one of the best arms in the system, an arm that can kep the ball on the ground and in the park and he's positioned to quite possible be a candidate for your starting rotation. Even if Rolen surprises and Stewart utterly washes out, this is a monstrously stupid deal!

    You want to include Stewart in a deal for a 3B? Fine! bring me Ryan Zimmerman - not a broken down 34 yo whose best days are way behind him.

    I thought we might be in trouble wanting action from the Island of misfit baseball minds, but thi was beyond my wildest horror. Be careful what you wish for, Hello, ten more years of suck!

  16. #540
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Yea, I knew that is what you would say. Folks were pretty high on Ward and upset when we traded him for "f'ing Kyle Lohse," and you now have the benefit of hindsight on Ward.

    I respect your knowledge of the Reds farm system, but seriously, the hyperbole you've been throwing around about Stewart in this thread sounds like agent talk.
    You say people were high on Ward.... but he wasn't even a top 10 prospect in a weak system at time.


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