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Thread: Scott Rolen traded to the Reds

  1. #736
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    This isn't about EE and Rolen as much as it's about how WJ got fleeced by Ricciardi.

    Holes? Pitching? Well, WJ just gave away a couple pitchers that I would have loved to see pitching for the Reds in 2010.

    What a waste.
    Stewart's not pitching for any MLB team in 2010 (and making it out alive).

    Neither kid sent up north helps with the true cancer on this team: the rotation.

    Obviously, if nothing's done about it, none of what we're talking about now matters a bit. But that's a separate matter.

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  3. #737
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Seems like mostly positive reviews on the Blue Jay message board:

    I love this trade. EE could very well be better then Rolen NEXT year. He might have been last season, defense considered. I could see Rolen limping his way through 100 games next season and his average dropping to his career norm and contuing not to hit for power.
    But no, this trade wasn't even straight up. We got two very capable arms, and Stewart seems to have some potential.
    On top of it all, we seemingly save about 5 million or so off next year's payroll. I think we fleeced the Reds in this one.
    Such an eye opener. Rolen's great year has really made me forgotten what he's really like. It's was a GOOD trade by J.P. today.
    "I think we fleeced the Reds in this one."
    Agree with this statement totally. I didn't think Ricciardi had it in him. Rolen's value, during his tenure with the Jays, was at an all time high and they cash it in for 2 great young arms...
    Some negative comments also in the mix:

    I don't think this is a good day for Jays fans. Rolen is probably the best defensive 3B in the teams history. He is a clutch hitter. EE has a very poor defensive track record. I think Rolen is one of the Jays leaders. He plays the game with heart. He is an excellent baserunner. Who will be our cleanup hitter now? I am glad I got to see him play in person several times this year. Our defense will be much weaker from now on. Do we really need 2 more young pitchers? Perhaps our next GM will trade some of your pitchers for some bats. We need more offense for 2010.
    Again this deal is great for them... as Juan francisco 3b , zack cozart, yonder alsono would have been a better deal for us then bullpen arms. As they fill to our needs more then pitching. this deal blows chunks!!!
    Mostly positive views on the other end. Looks like Edwin is already penciled in at DH while Bautista moves back to 3rd base.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  4. #738
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post

    I've been chewing on this all afternoon, but I'm realizing how glad I am to have the EE millstone off this team.

    FCB is correct, they made a move to improve the big league team, without sacrificing anything of certainty for now or the future. It's a stopgap....but a stopgap with a potential HOF'er that still plays ++ defense, consistent bat, and some great intangibles isn't the worst thing in the world. Could be a great transition until Cozart/ Frazier are ready.
    The problem is though that we never make the right moves at the right time. When we where in the race we sat on our hands even as we all foresaw the bottom falling out claiming to be hamstrung by the economy. Now we are no longer in the race and our great pitching staff is not looking so, including our big contract guys which we were not able to unload. What do we do, take on salary in a 3b who is nearly 35. How is that a good thing? We should be dumping salary and acquiring prospects (as they have become gold in this economy) and gearing up for the offseason continuing with the youth movements. This is a Yankee move not a out of contention low budget reds move.
    As for EE pumping his fists, I would also if I got to leave this sorry franchise.
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  5. #739
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    I appreciate EE's maturity and professionalism in pumping his fists and refusing to talk to reporter's after he left Dusty's office.

    JHJ had some great things to say, thanking the organization.etc etc.


    I've been chewing on this all afternoon, but I'm realizing how glad I am to have the EE millstone off this team.

    FCB is correct, they made a move to improve the big league team, without sacrificing anything of certainty for now or the future. It's a stopgap....but a stopgap with a potential HOF'er that still plays ++ defense, consistent bat, and some great intangibles isn't the worst thing in the world. Could be a great transition until Cozart/ Frazier are ready.

    Yeah, that bothered me too. EE can't wait to get out of Cincy.

    Regardless of the prevailing opinion at RedsZone regarding veteran leadership, I think that Dusty and Walt buy in completely. I think they see that as a problem on this team.

    Walt is big on defense, and can't seem to suffer EE's frequent mental errors and seeming lack of focus.

    This team is in a death spiral. All the deficiencies have been exposed.

    Rolen is a name the casual fan knows, and respects. He plays the Cincinnati Way.

    As dismal as the past few weeks has been, we'll at least get to watch one of the premier thirdbasemen in baseball history. Yeah, he's old, and getting older.

    I loved watching Buddy Bell when he was here. He was also past his prime, but one of the smoothest fielders I've ever seen.

    I guess I'm not disappointed because I expected absolutely nothing.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  6. #740
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Walt is reactive, not proactive is the short answer. Don't use your foresight to sell high, instead wait in status quo mode until you're compelled to activity out of sheer necessity. For example, last year, you can bet that Toronto would have given Rolen+ for EdE, as opposed to the other way around.
    I think you are right Stormy....but we stil had the benefit of some optimism for EE, that this would be the year he turns the corner.

    The Reds gave EE every chance to be a major league ballplayer, it just didn't work out. The finally cut bait....and I for one, am relieved he's finally been moved....he's a good poster boy for the Reds penchant of hanging on to players too long.
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  7. #741
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Walt is reactive, not proactive is the short answer. Don't use your foresight to sell high, instead wait in status quo mode until you're compelled to activity out of sheer necessity. For example, last year, you can bet that Toronto would have given Rolen+ for EdE, as opposed to the other way around.
    That's what wears on me. As a fan I just want a front office with a plan and a purpose - to at least give a chance to contend and the savvy to know how that can best be done.

    I know that any chance to contend is not that great for a team like the Reds anymore - it's not easy - I understand. That's why it makes me so mad when I see a reactionary panic move like Jocketty did today. At the least he got fleeced out of a pitcher that could have value for the major league club or in another deal. I truly believe that most good GMs would not have made the deal or at least could have done it without a price as high as Stewart.

  8. #742
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    You're batting .1000, or 1.000?
    Hey, I was in a rush to post because the game was getting ready to start and I didn't want to be "that guy" at the ballpark with his head glued to his blackberry!
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  9. #743
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    The Reds traded for a bona-fide Major Leaguer that I know I will enjoy watching in the field and at the bat. It almost feels like they are trying.

    I don't particularly care for the package they sent to get him or the stage of his career that he is in, but beggars can't be choosers.

    GL

  10. #744
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    As someone who has actually seen Zach Stewart pitch in person, you can't help but cringe at seeing him included in this type of deal. For those of you that question his talent, he is at least a taller healthy Scott Williamson right now. And yet he has room for growth.

    My initial reaction was a stream of obscenity.

    EE and Roenicke + Chaff for Rolen and Cash OK
    EE, Roenicke, and Stewart for Rolen and Cash, they had better sign Aroldis Chapman.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  11. #745
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I was actually just thinking the same thing. People can make jokes about leadership and I know that many want to compare it to talent. But when you look at this team and realize that the closest thing that some of these guys have to a vet leader is the dumbest manager in the game, it is a scary thought.
    I'm just coming back into the thread so I hope I'm not repeating anything, but I wonder how BPhil is going to like having "leadership" on the team? Not that I much care, but since he considers himself the defacto-leader I wonder if it will lead to friction.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  12. #746
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    As someone who has actually seen Zach Stewart pitch in person, you can't help but cringe at seeing him included in this type of deal. For those of you that question his talent, he is at least a taller healthy Scott Williamson right now. And yet he has room for growth.

    My initial reaction was a stream of obscenity.

    EE and Roenicke + Chaff for Rolen and Cash OK
    EE, Roenicke, and Stewart for Rolen and Cash, they had better sign Aroldis Chapman.
    Sorry, Scott Rolen got his money.

  13. #747
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Reading this thread you would think that Rolen will need a wheelchair to get from the dugout to third base.

    In reality, since being full time in 1997, Rolen has only played less than 100 games in one season- 2005. He played 142 games in 2006, 112 in 2007, 115 in 2008, and will probably play in about 130 games in 2009. And that is the worst stretch in his career.

    He is a 6 time All Star, 7 time Gold Glove, and as for his "declining power" he actually has better power numbers this year than 2007 and 2008.

    By the way, Buddy Bell was 33 when the Reds got him and he had 3 1/2 pretty decent years here.
    I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.- Stan Helsing

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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    About 90% of the criticism on this board amounts to faulting Walt for being unable to walk on water or doing its baseball equivalent: trading 4 and 5 starters with ridiculous contracts like Harang and Arroyo for top quality prospects at exactly the spots we need and getting the other teams to take on all their salaries in addition. If he hasn't done this, the claim is he's not proactive. The Rolen trade is a real deal, the kind that actually gets made, where both sides take calculated risks for returns they think make sense for them. We get one of the top 20 third basemen who's ever played; they get a replacement they need to sell to their fans and two decent prospects. Seems an even, realistic deal to me. I see no evidence in it that Walt's not proactive or that there is no plan or anything to support any of the other high-level inferences here.

  15. #749
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Reds can't get by with a league average LF. They have that now. They need a big bat there. .
    Then they should have kept Dunn.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  16. #750
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Then they should have kept Dunn.
    It wouldn't be impossible at all to trade for him in the offseason.


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