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Thread: Scott Rolen traded to the Reds

  1. #541
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Stewart has had a phenomenal year, but at the end of the day you're still talking about a guy with 124 pro innings in less than fifty total appearances.

    I don't like to lose a pitcher who profiles well for GABP, but while Zach has a very solid chance to be at least an okay reliever in the majors, I think it's very far from a sure thing that he's a starter. 14 starts does not a future ace make- and it's doubtful Stewart will be helping a major league club in 2010 as a starter. A reliever? Yes, very possibly. A starter? Not likely.

    ---
    "Building for the future" hasn't worked for the last decade. I guess I'm willing to stop talking as much about "the future" and start talking about "now". It can't turn out much worse than the other way did.

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  3. #542
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    For the first time ever, I'm considering just dropping the Reds. I can't believe I'm saying that because I'm an absolute diehard fan. I have never felt like this before. I travel four hours to Cincy at least 5-6 times a year and usually attend 12-14 games a year. And for what? To watch them lose. Unfortunately, I've already bought tickets to the series against the Nats (hey! at least I get to see Dunner) but this may be the last time I go. I need to be just drop the Reds and become a Cardinals fan. Walt Jocketty and the Reds have sucked the life out of me.
    When you're into this Reds-Love thing for something like 50 years, you'll understand that this trade in a vacume looks silly, but it's not the whole story.

    I was passing through your hometown this afternoon on my way home from Charleston, when I heard the news and thought about you and other RedsZoners. Many folks here (not necessarily you) really thought Edwin had potential and rooted for him even as he threw the ball widely to first base. Even when he would go 7-7 and follow it up with 1-20.

    To a baseball GM or a manager, that had to be maddening. And no matter how much instruction he got, he just didn't get better. Many said he was young, but he was nearing 27. Time to cut bait. I thought about that and wondered how everyone would react and I think I know now. Sleep on it before you cut bait. My Dad talked about the years between 1940 and 1961 like they were purgatory. He always said 1961 was worth the previous 20 years. Someday We'll feel like that. I hope.
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  4. #543
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Zach Stewart will win a Cy Young for Toronto. Bank on it. Seriously.

    Zach Stewart would never win a Cy Young for Cincinnati. Bank on it.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  5. #544
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over the loss of a pitching prospect, especially a Reds one. I've been a Reds fan for the better part of 30 years and Trevor Hoffman is the only guy I can think of who went somewhere else and really had that much of a significant career. And, well, you all know what happened with the guys that stayed. Most of them sucked.
    Yeah, I agree with you. It's the 11M that could have been better invested IMO. We're not the Yanks.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  6. #545
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You say people were high on Ward.... but he wasn't even a top 10 prospect in a weak system at time.
    Exactly. According to BA, Stewart just barely missed their top 50 midseason prospect list.

    BA on the trade:

    J.J. Cooper: Actually it's Zack Stewart, Edwin Encarnacion and Josh Roenicke for Scott Rolen. Alonso and EE for Rolen would have been historically bad in the Kazmir-Zambrano bracket of bad trades. This one still seems absolutely baffling for the Reds. They pick up a 34-year-old 3B with an 11-million contract for next year who traded straight up for Troy Glaus just a year and a half ago. Rolen makes the Reds a better team for the rest of the year, but the difference between being a 74 and a 78 win team is absolutely meaningless. Our Reds correspondent John Fay reported recently that the Reds payroll for next year will likely be static or down from this year's payroll, signing Rolen adds another expensive, injury-prone player on the downside of his career to a club that needs some more young, cheap talent. It's a great trade for the Blue Jays as Stewart could be an impact arm either as a very solid starting pitcher or as a potential closer, Roenicke is a plus-arm reliever who needs to sharpen his command and Encarnacion is a much younger and cheaper third baseman than Rolen who has been a solid hitter when healthy.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/chat/?1249058713
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  7. #546
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    My Dad talked about the years between 1940 and 1961 like they were purgatory. He always said 1961 was worth the previous 20 years. Someday We'll feel like that. I hope.
    That's what I hope to feel ... if the Reds ever win another NL pennant.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  8. #547
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You say people were high on Ward.... but he wasn't even a top 10 prospect in a weak system at time.
    Oh come on, now you are being disingenous. Zach Ward was a golden child around these parts for his hot streak in Dayton. He really wasn't around long enough in the Reds system to get an established ranking. He came and went in 2005.

  9. #548
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Good luck with that. $55M is tied up in Arroyo, Harang, Cordero, Rolen and Phillips. Thats 20 other spots that need to be filled with about 15-20 million. We aren't getting anyone this offseason unless its in a trade and even then where will the money come from to pay him?
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If we couldn't do it now why would we be able to in December?
    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I'm thinking August
    So am I. The 7/31 deadline meant alot more for players that made less than $8-10m. My bet is that Arroyo will be dealt by the last trading deadline (8/31). He's been better and he makes a little less than Harang. Don't include his contract and add a bump up to $80m for next year and we could have $30-35m for those other 20 spots instead of $15-20m.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  10. #549
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by gm View Post
    Where were you? Jock got "Bo Diaz" last winter in a trade for Farney
    I knew Bo Diaz and Ramon Hernandez is no Bo Diaz.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  11. #550
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Zach Stewart would never win a Cy Young for Cincinnati. Bank on it.
    I agree. Our pitching coaches aren't nearly as good as theirs. They will take Stewart and turn him into something we couldn't.

  12. #551
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    This is one of those days I miss the old gig. Today was always a crazy, fun, exciting day at the Big One.


  13. #552
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You say people were high on Ward.... but he wasn't even a top 10 prospect in a weak system at time.
    Gotta agree with Doug. There's no comparison between Stewart and Ward. Ward was in A Ball and Stewart has breezed through the system and had success atAA. His ability to keep the ball on the ground mad e him ezactly what was need by this organization and in too small supply.

    Yeah prospects are over-rated most of the time and you should not be afraid to include them in deals, but get something in return! This was a waste and you can't convince me that there aren't at least 25 GMs out there that couldn't have gotten this deal done with EdE and Roenicke alone (still too much), but Riccardi new he had a real sucker on the line. Oh, wait though! Those other 25 GMs were competent enoough to know that Rolen is overpaid, a huge health risk and in decline. Once again, Walt bids against himself with disasterous results.

  14. #553
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Oh come on, now you are being disingenous. Zach Ward was a golden child around these parts for his hot streak in Dayton. He really wasn't around long enough in the Reds system to get an established ranking. He came and went in 2005.
    His stuff didn't project to be more than a #3 starter at the time. He was also a college guy in Low A with good but not great strikeout rates. He wasn't a top 10 guy in the system at the time.

  15. #554
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Once Toronto fans saw ED E play 3b, they would have come for their guy's head if the only return was EE and Roenicke.

  16. #555
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    The hyperbole around here is comical.

    I'm still waiting for that Bailey fellow to pan out too.

    Maybe he will, maybe he won't....but now Zack Stewart is going to win a Cy Young?

    Hysterical.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun


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