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Thread: Scott Rolen traded to the Reds

  1. #721
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    The OF as it's currently set is ugly, but Gomes would be nothing more than a bench bat. And you might as well reserve yourself to the fact that WT is in CF next year.
    WT will be paid $4M next year no matter what, so use him to the best of his meager ability - 25th man on the roster, pinch-runner, pinch-bunter and late-inning defensive replacement. Keep him until the trade deadline or until what ever point in the season that a DFA becomes palatable.

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  3. #722
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I actually don't think they're separable. Rolen's seen a ton of pitchers a ton of times--Dusty and Jacoby haven't so they're not going to be able convey pitch by pitch breakdowns for him. Sure, the only way he'll learn is experience, but having an encyclopedic knowledge of current active pitchers' repertoires is a pretty valuable thing.
    Doesn't the scouting and video department have that covered. Quit reaching here. It was a bad move to make in the middle of a season that is heading down the drain. We didn't take a step forward here, we took a step back. Rolen is almost guaranteed to have a drop in production and we are now just depleting our pitching options. What makes us think this move helps whatsoever. We now add a lot of money to the books in a player that will be a minimal (if even) upgrade over what we already had. We obviously had no takers for arroyo and harang so what next? We still need a LF, SS,a good SP or two if we wish to have serious playoff aspirations (and another CF or RF if we really want to look good). Should we get Arroyo or harang off the books we may be able to address one or two of the moves that are needed but that doesn't look all that likely. We are now stuck with much of the same as when we had Griffey and Dunn and Milton etc. Overpaid (not dunn in regards to performance, but fit) players who will impede our ability to truly fill the teams needs. I think - I am throwing in the towel. I'm not sure I can stomache much more of the idleness or lack of plan. We are always sitting in pergatory with no clear path. I am done with pergatory.
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  4. #723
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    I don't see Bob eating $4+ next year and I gotta believe if he's on the roster he plays.
    I believe this team's braintrust is smarter than we on this board give them credit for. I have to believe that, because if they aren't...well, then what are any of us really living for?
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  5. #724
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    IMO, he didn't overpay. So you're arguing over the timing of the deal at that point. Beltre will require a long term commitment. So would Figgens.

    The Reds dumped a guy without a position and a couple of question mark bullpen guys for some certainty at a decent rate for a limited commitment. It's not a world shifter, but it improves the MLB team, and that's what I as a fan ask for.
    So now you are for them getting Rolen? What?

    This is what you said yesterday in the other Rolen thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Heck, this is a monumental waste of time chasing Rolen. Even if they get him for free.

  6. #725
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    I appreciate EE's maturity and professionalism in pumping his fists and refusing to talk to reporter's after he left Dusty's office.

    JHJ had some great things to say, thanking the organization.etc etc.


    I've been chewing on this all afternoon, but I'm realizing how glad I am to have the EE millstone off this team.

    FCB is correct, they made a move to improve the big league team, without sacrificing anything of certainty for now or the future. It's a stopgap....but a stopgap with a potential HOF'er that still plays ++ defense, consistent bat, and some great intangibles isn't the worst thing in the world. Could be a great transition until Cozart/ Frazier are ready.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  7. #726
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    IMO, he didn't overpay. So you're arguing over the timing of the deal at that point. Beltre will require a long term commitment. So would Figgens.

    The Reds dumped a guy without a position and a couple of question mark bullpen guys for some certainty at a decent rate for a limited commitment. It's not a world shifter, but it improves the MLB team, and that's what I as a fan ask for.
    I can understand that, but they were talking extending him at the presser today and that would reallt exacerbate the situation, IMO. I love Rolen and I'll be relishing everyone of his accomplishments in a Reds uniform. I'm working duing the game tomorrow, but I'm recording the next two games just because of Rolen. it's been more than a month since I've recorded a game.

    My feelings about Scott Rolen, as a player don't factor in to my dislike for this deal. I just see this trade as the kind of deal that keeps this franchise where it is - mediocrity.

    I see it as ill-conceived, ill-timed and not enough value received for value given when it comes to building a winner. I think Rolen for EdE would have been treading water, but including Roenicke and especially Stewart is a regression.

  8. #727
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I believe this team's braintrust is smarter than we on this board give them credit for. I have to believe that, because if they aren't...well, then what are any of us really living for?
    Hopefully none of us are living for a professional sports team
    Go Gators!

  9. #728
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    I appreciate EE's maturity and professionalism in pumping his fists and refusing to talk to reporter's after he left Dusty's office.

    JHJ had some great things to say, thanking the organization.etc etc.


    I've been chewing on this all afternoon, but I'm realizing how glad I am to have the EE millstone off this team.

    FCB is correct, they made a move to improve the big league team, without sacrificing anything of certainty for now or the future. It's a stopgap....but a stopgap with a potential HOF'er that still plays ++ defense, consistent bat, and some great intangibles isn't the worst thing in the world. Could be a great transition until Cozart/ Frazier are ready.

    $11MM and a top prospect. That's a pretty expensive stopgap.

    And if EE is so bad, then waive him.

    I can't recall anyone being too upset when they signed EE to a two-year deal during the off-season.

    All of a sudden, he's cancer. Strange. I wasn't a huge fan either, but I don't get the cutting off your nose to spite your face.

  10. #729
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by CTA513 View Post
    Then why did they waste money on bringing him back?
    Walt is reactive, not proactive is the short answer. Don't use your foresight to sell high, instead wait in status quo mode until you're compelled to activity out of sheer necessity. For example, last year, you can bet that Toronto would have given Rolen+ for EdE, as opposed to the other way around.

  11. #730
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    So now you are for them getting Rolen? What?

    This is what you said yesterday in the other Rolen thread.
    It might be a waste of time in the sense that by itself it won't make a difference. But it beats watching EE. And at least he'll help with defense.

    There's not really a contradiction there. More of a reflection of my angst at this pitching staff. It's truly a doozy--considering Bailey and Lehr are giving the Reds better starts at this point than the guys they're paying millions to.

    It goes without saying: this team is full of holes. But taking EE away from it fills a hole by itself, and Rolen at least keeps it from leaking more (for one season anyway).

  12. #731
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Walt is reactive, not proactive is the short answer. Don't use your foresight to sell high, instead wait in status quo mode until you're compelled to activity out of sheer necessity. For example, last year, you can bet that Toronto would have given Rolen+ for EdE, as opposed to the other way around.
    Exactly. The franchise just paid a steep price for Walt's lack of being proactive.

    GM's have been fired for less.

  13. #732
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    $11MM and a top prospect. That's a pretty expensive stopgap.

    And if EE is so bad, then waive him.

    I can't recall anyone being too upset when they signed EE to a two-year deal during the off-season.

    All of a sudden, he's cancer. Strange. I wasn't a huge fan either, but I don't get the cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    I don't think EdE's a cancer, I think he's poor player. Can't say I was too moved one way or another by his resigning this winter. I've long been an advocate of moving him off 3rd. Trying him at 1st, left.

  14. #733
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    It might be a waste of time in the sense that by itself it won't make a difference. But it beats watching EE. And at least he'll help with defense.

    There's not really a contradiction there. More of a reflection of my angst at this pitching staff. It's truly a doozy--considering Bailey and Lehr are giving the Reds better starts at this point than the guys they're paying millions to.

    It goes without saying: this team is full of holes. But taking EE away from it fills a hole by itself, and Rolen at least keeps it from leaking more (for one season anyway).

    This isn't about EE and Rolen as much as it's about how WJ got fleeced by Ricciardi.

    Holes? Pitching? Well, WJ just gave away a couple pitchers that I would have loved to see pitching for the Reds in 2010.

    What a waste.

  15. #734
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Hopefully none of us are living for a professional sports team
    It's called melodrama Krono:
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  16. #735
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    Re: Heyman says Rolen to the Reds

    I would have preferred the Reds sign Beltre too...... He'd probably take at least a 3 year deal though and it seems like the Reds might be betting that they can solve third internally before then...

    Also, they probably aren't going to raise payroll dramatically so if they can't unload Arroyo/Cordero etc, they probably aren't going to spend a ton in free agency.

    Right now it's looking like they can only definitely shed roughly $15M (Weathers, Gonzo and the portion of RaH that the O's aren't footing). Another $1M will come off the books as obligations to Stanton, Ross and Castro evaporate. However, roughly $8M will be spent on raises to Lincoln, Taveras, Phillips, Arroyo, and Harang. Also, Rolen will make roughly $6M more than EE in 2010.

    So based upon rough justice math, without shedding some contracts in August or via trades in the fall, the Reds will have $2M to spend in free agency before a payroll increase.

    Rolen might have been a move that anticipated difficulty in shedding Arroyoesque contracts and thus an inability to buy upgrades.

    The Reds have $31.5M committed to Cordero, Arroyo, Taveras, Rhodes, and Lincoln in 2010.

    I think the one thing that the Rolen trade definitely signals is an end seeing Gonzo and RaH in Reds uniforms.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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