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Thread: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

  1. #166
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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    I have seen Rojas on the list several times. I am not certain of the exact wording on international players and their Rule V eligibility. He has played four years and signed at 16. Do we know for certain that the list on post 163 is official?

    My guess at this point, (and this is just a guess because you talk to different people within the organization and they all have vastly different opinions of who should be protected) with four days before the roster has to be set, is that they fill the four current vacancies with Heisey and Wood (locks), Valaika (highly probable), and Ondrusek (would have been a lock if not for AFL struggles). If there are more vacancies created, my next set of additions, in order, would be Valiquette, Del Rosario, and Jordan Smith. That's seven. That's probably it unless they add Dorn, which would surprise me a little based on the things I have heard.
    Interesting stuff 72, thanks for the heads up.
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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    I have seen Rojas on the list several times. I am not certain of the exact wording on international players and their Rule V eligibility. He has played four years and signed at 16. Do we know for certain that the list on post 163 is official?

    My guess at this point, (and this is just a guess because you talk to different people within the organization and they all have vastly different opinions of who should be protected) with four days before the roster has to be set, is that they fill the four current vacancies with Heisey and Wood (locks), Valaika (highly probable), and Ondrusek (would have been a lock if not for AFL struggles). If there are more vacancies created, my next set of additions, in order, would be Valiquette, Del Rosario, and Jordan Smith. That's seven. That's probably it unless they add Dorn, which would surprise me a little based on the things I have heard.
    I'll hazard a guess that there will be at least four more slots opened up. Nix is due for arbitration. Balentien must stay on the 25. I can't see keeping Taveras if he is third on the depth chart for CF. I think at least two of these three will be removed. I suspect that either Rosales or Sutton will be removed. Sutton is more versatile since he switch hits and plays a better SS. With the signing of Hernandez, Tatum is at risk. I have not seen reports on how well Bray, Lincoln, and Thompson are progressing, but I doubt that all three will be kept.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Miller, Lehr and Castillo have already signed contracts for 2010. They'll be in Louisville.
    But they can still be picked in Rule 5 if anyone wants them.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    But they can still be picked in Rule 5 if anyone wants them.
    Are you sure? They have signed contracts.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Are you sure? They have signed contracts.
    If they aren't protected on the 40 man roster, they can be taken contracts and all. If not any team could avoid rule 5 by simply signing its players to a contract.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Correct. But that is also why they signed Lehr to a major league deal before he was outrighted. They basically weighted down his contract so that if someone wants to take him in the Rule V, they are on the hook for the whole $400,000, not just the $50,000 it costs to select a player. I thought it was a good move by the Reds.

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Part of what this comes down to is this question: While all of us are fans of the farm system and we see potential in most all of the prospects, where does the line stop in terms of players the Reds would want to keep? In other words, how deep does the list go before the Reds view the next player up as Carlos Guevara, meaning they would actually prefer to take the $50,000 and give up the player? How many players do they have on the list that they would not give up for $50,000?

    Not sure of the answer to that. But that is part of the decision.

    One other thought on this: It would shock me if this happened, but is there any chance they would protect Terrell Young? I would have to say no.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Miller, Lehr and Castillo have already signed contracts for 2010. They'll be in Louisville.
    According to BA's transactions page, the Reds granted Miller Free Agency. I'm guessing that he asked out with Ramon's signing and his shot at going north after spring training disappeared.

    Too bad. I didn't really want Miller on the roster, but he's a good defensive catcher who seems to do a good job with the staff and I think he'd be a good guy to have in the organization helping with the minor league pitchers. The Reds lost another guy who I've heard is like that in Chris Kroski though I really have no way of knowing.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Deadline day has arrived and the Roster still seems unsettled. Heisey and Wood still have not been added and others who seem like they should go are still on the roster. Most other teams have seemingly made their moves and I wonder if the Reds have something in the works to help settle the Roster. Could be a day we may hear of a minor deal or two or more likely just some last minute movement on and off the 40 man.

    For clarification, today is the last day that the Reds can add a minor leaguer who is out of Rule 5 exemptions (in other words enough time has passed since they were drafted or signed that they are eligible to be picked) to the roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. If the Reds want to remove a guy in order to create a spot to pick some one in the draft, they have until December 8th for that.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    According to BA's transactions page, the Reds granted Miller Free Agency. I'm guessing that he asked out with Ramon's signing and his shot at going north after spring training disappeared.
    I think the BA stuff is a bit old. Miller did sign a 2010 contract, and Jocketty himself has been quoted as saying Corky will be in Louisville. I'd be very surprised if this has changed.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Deadline day has arrived and the Roster still seems unsettled. Heisey and Wood still have not been added and others who seem like they should go are still on the roster. Most other teams have seemingly made their moves and I wonder if the Reds have something in the works to help settle the Roster. Could be a day we may hear of a minor deal or two or more likely just some last minute movement on and off the 40 man.

    For clarification, today is the last day that the Reds can add a minor leaguer who is out of Rule 5 exemptions (in other words enough time has passed since they were drafted or signed that they are eligible to be picked) to the roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. If the Reds want to remove a guy in order to create a spot to pick some one in the draft, they have until December 8th for that.
    So we'd probably expect them to go right to 40 by the end of the day. I'm trying to get the process straight.

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    So we'd probably expect them to go right to 40 by the end of the day. I'm trying to get the process straight.
    Yep, now that they're at 40, they have until December 8th to remove someone in order to make a pick. They can't call anyone else up to protect them, if I understand it correctly, but they can still subtract to create a spot. Anyone removed would be unprotected from the Rule 5 draft.

    I'm guessing the Reds will try like heck to find a taker for Willy between now and then and then DFA him at the last possible minute if they aren't successful to create a spot, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post

    I'm guessing the Reds will try like heck to find a taker for Willy between now and then and then DFA him at the last possible minute if they aren't successful to create a spot, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.
    It makes a lot of sense to me too. If I understand the rules correctly, the Reds can now look at unprotected players from the other teams for someone who can fill a need on the ML roster. My guess would be either a bull pen arm or utility infielder who could at least challenge Janish at SS. If they don't like what's available, they can keep Taveras through spring training. Injuries may make Taveras a more attractive acquisition for other teams as opening day nears.

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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Per Jamie Ramsey's great blog - a chat with Terry Reynolds, director of player development. Here's an important guy when it comes to what we all like to do - project players and pace their trajectory.

    (emphasis mine where placed):

    BOR: Ok, so the Reds on Friday added to the 40-man roster RHP Enerio Del Rosario, OF Chris Heisey, RHP Logan Ondrusek, RHP Jordan Smith, IF Chris Valaika, LHP Philippe Valiquette and LHP Travis Wood. Obviously the more recognizable names from that list are Heisey, Wood and Valaika. Heisey is one of those guys who's getting a lot of publicity lately. And depending on whom you ask, folks either really like his game or are just kind of mildly impressed. What can you tell us about him?

    TR: Chris is a guy that Jeff Brookens in our scouting department deserves a lot of credit for. He was a 17th-round draft pick out of a small school in Pennsylvania and this guy has really good tools. He can run, he can throw, he can hit, he can play all 3 outfield positions. (He has) enough speed to play center, enough arm to play right. He's a smart player. He's hit and put up good numbers at every level he's played which includes Double-A, Triple-A and now the Arizona Fall League. He's a good-looking young player that I'm happy we have in our system.

    BOR: And I have to admit, we were in a meeting at the beginning of the year in Walt's office and he asked you point-blank, "Give me a name that we should keep an eye on," and you said Heisey and it's paid off, he had a great year.

    TR: He's one of those guys you root for, too because without any fanfare he does his job, does what he's told, works hard at his game and tries to improve everyday.

    BOR: Travis Wood had a breakout year down on the farm last season, did you see this coming and what happened to enable Travis to enjoy this renewed success?

    TR: Well I think the pat on the back goes to the pitching coaches in player development whether it's Tom Brown or Rigo Beltran or Mack Jenkins or any of the pitching coaches that have dealt with Travis over the last couple of years. I think it's really just a case of him maturing both as a player and as a person. He was very young high school player when he was drafted, and each year it's kind of taken him a second year at each level to get his feet underneath him and be successful. This year, he jumped into Double-A and really tore it up from the beginning of the season, (and he) pitched well when he got to Triple-A. He's always had the stuff to do it, I think it's a matter of increased confidence and increasing his ability to throw pitches where he wants to throw them. Did I see it coming? No, to answer your question, but it sure was a pleasant surprise and hopefully he can keep that going.

    BOR: And you mentioned his stuff, is it true - I think I read in Baseball America - that he learned a new pitch?

    TR: He throws a cutter, which has helped. It just gives the hitter something else to look at and it gives him a little bit more confidence to throw the ball in on the hitter's hands. And it has been a big help to him.

    BOR: Chris Valaika had a really rough start in 2009 and then when he returned from injury showed signs of his old self. Where do you see his progress at this point?

    TR: I'm going to call last year just a blip on the radar screen for Chris. He didn't have a good year performance-wise, (and then) he had a broken hand and missed a bunch of time. Just when it looked like he was coming back to be his old self, it just kind of leveled out at the end of the summer. My expectation with him is that he's going to come out and have a real good year next year in Louisville. In talking to him just recently, I know he's very focused on doing that. For the people who don't know Chris, he's one of those guys that if he tells you he's doing something, he's gonna do it in the offseason and come in ready to go. I know it was a frustrating year for all of us, but most importantly it was a frustrating year for him and I wouldn't (plan to) see a duplication of that coming next year.

    BOR: And for Chris, do you see him more as a shortstop or a second-baseman or a utility-infielder? What's your take on that, what's his best position?

    TR: Well he's played predominately shortstop for us in the course of the minor leagues. If he can do that, I don't have any reason to doubt that he couldn't come up and play shortstop at the Major League level. The great thing about Chris is that he can give you some versatility. If you need him to play second he can do that, he can even play third, he can do that. I would still consider him primarily a shortstop but he's got the ability to - if needed - can play any one of those 3 spots.

    BOR: Now let's talk a little about the lesser-known players who were added to the roster. We'll start with Enerio Del Rosario. What kind of pitcher is he, and what makes him roster-worthy?

    TR: He was one of those guys that started out in A-ball this year for us and basically dominated that level. He made a stop in Double-A and pitched extremely well there. And then you kind of hold your breath because we had a bunch of guys move 2 levels this year, which is something you try not to do if you can avoid it. But it was one of those unavoidable circumstances with a lot of guys and Ernie got to Triple-A and I don't know if he gave up a run there in a bunch of outings. Most nights he was almost unhittable. He's just one of those guys who really knows how to pitch. He keeps the ball way down in the strike zone, he changes speeds, he's very aggressive. I wouldn't say there isn't anything overpowering about the guy, but I would say if you had to have somebody come out there in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning during this summer, he would've been 1 of the 2 or 3 guys in our system you wanted out there on the mound.

    BOR: Logan Ondrusek is a lanky hard-thrower. He's had some recent struggles, but obviously the organization likes what they see out of him. What's your take on Logan?

    TR: Everything I just basically said about Del Rosario is true for Ondrusek, too. He also started in A-ball, ended up in Triple-A, ended up in the (Arizona) Fall League. (He) pitched at a tremendous level this summer in all 3 levels he pitched. He ended up struggling a bit in the fall league and I'd say some of that was due to throwing a lot during the course of the summer, maybe more than he's thrown for us in the past. And also, the break between the end of the season and the fall league; I think he's one of those guys who the more he pitches consistently without a break, the better he gets. I think the thing that was different with Logan this year was his attitude. He believed he could get hitters out, he's always had the stuff to do it and this year he went out there and pitched that way.

    BOR: An interesting name to me is Jordan Smith. He is coming off an injury and didn't pitch much in '09. And again, obviously the club thinks enough of his ability to protect him by adding him to the 40-man roster. What can you tell us about Jordan?

    TR: He's a big, strong, right-handed pitcher who's been used predominately by us as a starter in the past. I think there's talk that we may try him in the pen, come the spring. But he's got probably the best stuff of the guys we've been talking about on this call. He's young, he's big and he's strong. He did have a set-back with an elbow issue during the course of the season but he did not have surgery. He joined us in Instructional League and it looks like everything is good and he should be 100% ready to go in the spring. He's one of those guys who can move real fast if he's healthy.

    BOR: Valiquette is a hard-throwing lefty, what impresses you about his game?

    TR: Well the most impressive thing is he's a lefthander throwing at anywhere near 93 to 97 mph. He's French-Canadian without much of a baseball background when we drafted him, so it's been a fairly steep learning curve for Philippe during the course of his career. It's just every year (his progress has) been incrementally done and last year was by far the best he's pitched as a Red. (He has) one of those arms, that when the draft comes around in December, he'd be an easy guy for another club to take because you could just put him in the bullpen and throw him out there a couple of times a week, and "Oh, this guy's got a great arm" and hang on to him for a full season. He's one of those guys, that when it all clicks and that he finally becomes a complete pitcher, he's got as good of stuff as anyone we have.
    Pretty interesting that Jordan Smith is a) moving to the pen b) considered to have better stuff than Wood.

    Also surprised to hear they like Valaika at SS in Cincinnati if opportunities arise.

    Nice to hear about the relievers (not glad to hear Smith may be one - making another bullpen guy on the 40), but nothing too revelatory there.
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    I thought this story could use it's own thread, but I can't make one. Why is that? Not enough posts?
    Last edited by mdccclxix; 12-01-2009 at 01:12 AM. Reason: added info

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Pretty interesting that Jordan Smith is a) moving to the pen b) considered to have better stuff than Wood.

    Also surprised to hear they like Valaika at SS in Cincinnati if opportunities arise.

    Nice to hear about the relievers (not glad to hear Smith may be one - making another bullpen guy on the 40), but nothing too revelatory there.

    I thought this story could use it's own thread, but I can't make one. Why is that? Not enough posts?
    You don't have enough posts to make a topic of our own. As far as stuff goes, Jordan Smith has a very good sinking fastball that sits 91-93 and hits 95. He has a slider that is considered to have plus potential. The stuff is most certainly there for him, but given those things I have always felt he should miss a few more bats than he has.

    I am with you on Valaika.... it seems that depending on who is talking you are going to get a different response about Valaika and shortstop. Rick Sweet earlier this year said the Reds didn't view him as a long term guy there and that he was moving to 2B and he did. He moved back after some injuries, then was injured himself.


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