Turn Off Ads?
Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 189

Thread: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

  1. #121
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,200

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    they could take these guys off and I wouldnt bat an eye, I know they wont take them all off, just saying

    Miller
    Hernandez
    Castillo
    Barker
    Richar
    Balentien
    Nix
    Taveras
    Wells
    Thompson
    Lincoln
    For the most part, I agree. Balentien seems to have potential, but carries the liability that he must stay on the 25 for the Reds. Unless I am missing something, I don't see the dilemma.

    I need some help from someone more familiar with the rules. Can the Reds refuse the option of Hernandez, drop him from the 40, then re-sign him in January? Or, are they prohibited from negotiating with him until May?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #122
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    First of all Valaika's birthday is given as Aug, 1985, so he was 24 this year. Second, I don't see how you can describe as "cherry picking" looking at his most recent season at the highest level he's played: that's what GM's are going to be looking at when they evaluate whether they are going to take him in the rule 5 draft. Third, I didn't compare him to Sutton and Rosales, except to say I thought he'd be better than Rosales. The point is simply that those are guys whose AAA stats are a lot better than Valaika's and we've seen how they've fared in the major leagues. I like Valaika fine and think he'll be a decent utility player in the major leagues--if he doesn't get taken in the Rule 5 draft this year (which will result in his sitting on some major league bench when, as should be clear to every GM, he needs at least another full season at AAA). I repeat the question is not simply whether he's good enough to protect: it's who do you expose in order to protect a guy whose likely ceiling is that of a utility player.
    Well we will just have to agree to disagree on the age issue as he spent most of this season as a 23 year old and he will spend most most all of next season as a 24 year old. In the minors it's important to make the distinction on age. Especially the age 24 because a lot of guys have a power increase at the age of 24. And GM's will also look at scouting reports, previous years and injury history and determine that here's a guy who they should give some serious consideration for drafting. He's a talented kid with the bat who is not a defensive black hole and as he ages his power and discipline will improve. Perhaps he's not the ideal 2B due to a lack of above average range but he's currently got more value than a host of players currently residing on the 40 man. I think he's a decent eventual starting 2B who's offensive prowess has yet to peak.

    Oh and to answer your question your acting as if his recent season concluded something about him and I doubt anyone makes that stretch.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 10-30-2009 at 05:41 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  4. #123
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT View Post
    For the most part, I agree. Balentien seems to have potential, but carries the liability that he must stay on the 25 for the Reds. Unless I am missing something, I don't see the dilemma.

    I need some help from someone more familiar with the rules. Can the Reds refuse the option of Hernandez, drop him from the 40, then re-sign him in January? Or, are they prohibited from negotiating with him until May?
    I believe that rule about prohibiting them until May has been changed/dropped. So yes they should be able to re-sign him in January.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  5. #124
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,577

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    On Valaika's age, I think it's a pretty generally accepted convention that if a player turns 24 during the season, then that is regarded as his 24 year old season. Maybe Doug will weigh in on that. I never concluded anything about Valaika based on his 2009 performance. The question at hand is whether he's likely to be taken by a major league GM for a spot on some team's 25 man roster in 2010. Seems to me obvious the most relevant information for that is what he did in 2009 and at AAA. I think RZers generally underestimate the quality of the players available in the Rule 5 draft; there are usually quite a lot of decent ones, but what teams are really looking for are possibly difference making arms. It seems to me pretty hard to project Valaika as a useful member of a 25 man roster for 2010.

  6. #125
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,868

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    On Valaika's age, I think it's a pretty generally accepted convention that if a player turns 24 during the season, then that is regarded as his 24 year old season. Maybe Doug will weigh in on that. I never concluded anything about Valaika based on his 2009 performance. The question at hand is whether he's likely to be taken by a major league GM for a spot on some team's 25 man roster in 2010. Seems to me obvious the most relevant information for that is what he did in 2009 and at AAA. I think RZers generally underestimate the quality of the players available in the Rule 5 draft; there are usually quite a lot of decent ones, but what teams are really looking for are possibly difference making arms. It seems to me pretty hard to project Valaika as a useful member of a 25 man roster for 2010.
    I think teams looking to add talent to the organization would take a guy like Valaika. The Padres and the Pirates are two teams that I could see going after him. The Royals and maybe the Marlins as well. If teams think that Valaika could play 2B, 3B and fill in at SS once in a while, I think he'd be in demand. Teams are always looking for guys that can hit a little that can play up the middle. Some team like SD could give him a shot in spring training, stash him on the DL, let him get 100 or so AAA PAs in a rehab appearance and then re-evaluate in June. By then, they are probably an obvious out of the race sell 'em off and go with kids team and could let him play. These types of teams probably don't worry so much about the keep him on the roster rule as you would think. If they think a kid can be a player for them at a spot where they are thin, they will make it work. The big if with Valaika IMO is whether evaluators really believe he can play 2B and SS even on a spot basis. Its really the difference between him being a major leaguer and a career minor leaguer IMO. I think he can be a multi-position guy like that with enough bat to contribute.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #126
    Moderator Gallen5862's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wilmington,NC
    Posts
    6,534

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    CINCINNATI -- The Reds want catcher Ramon Hernandez to return for 2010, but not for the $8.5 million figure his club option calls for.

    "We're not going to pick up the option," Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said on Friday. "We have been talking with his agent and trying to negotiate a new deal. We're hoping he comes back."

    The buyout for the Hernandez option is $1 million. Acquired last winter from the Orioles in a trade for utility player Ryan Freel and two prospects, Hernandez batted .258 with five home runs and 37 RBIs in 81 games. Only July 21, Hernandez had arthroscopic surgery to clean out his left knee and he missed 57 games. He also made 21 starts in place of Joey Votto at first base.

    Should he not return to Cincinnati at a reduced price and hit the open market, Hernandez is rated a Type B free agent by Elias. If he is offered arbitration, it would mean the Reds would receive a first-round sandwich pick in the 2010 Draft as compensation.

    Without Hernandez, the Reds would likely have Ryan Hanigan as the primary catcher. While Hanigan is better defensively than Hernandez, they would probably want someone that can bring more offense.

    In other roster moves, the Reds sent backup catcher Corky Miller and reserve outfielder Darnell McDonald outright to Triple-A Louisville. In 21 games for the Reds, Miller hit .179, but was a strong presence behind the plate. Reds pitchers were 13-5 with a 3.02 ERA when he caught.

    McDonald batted .267 in 47 games over two big league stints in 2009, but hit .323 (21-for-65) after his second callup on Aug. 25. Both Miller and McDonald could return to the team under Minor League deals. If the Reds didn't retain Hernandez or land another catcher, Miller would have a strong shot at the backup catcher's job next season. The light-hitting Craig Tatum is the only other catcher on the Reds' 40-man roster.

    "The hope is we can get them re-signed for next year," Jocketty said of Miller and McDonald. "We needed space on the roster because we have so many guys to protect."

    The Reds' 40-man roster currently stands at 37 players with three more on the 60-day disabled list.

    The Reds are still looking around for a regular shortstop but can cross J.J. Hardy off their list. Hardy, who was dealt from the Brewers to the Twins for center fielder Carlos Gomez, was on the Cincinnati radar.

    "We talked to [the Brewers] several times," Jocketty said. "We didn't match up and they didn't want to trade within our division, which was understandable."

    Jocketty also said the Reds have talked to the agents for arbitration-eligible outfielders Jonny Gomes and Laynce Nix. Teams have a Dec. 12 deadline to tender contracts but with the Reds trying to hold the line on payroll, it's not a lock either player will be offered arbitration.

    "We've talked a little bit," Jocketty said of negotiations with Gomes and Nix.

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...=.jsp&c_id=cin

  8. #127
    Moderator Gallen5862's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wilmington,NC
    Posts
    6,534

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/




    Danny Richar, Kevin Barker Become Free Agents

    By Tim Dierkes [November 6 at 3:24pm CST]
    Danny Richar and Kevin Barker elected free agency after being outrighted by the Reds, according to C. Trent Rosecrans (via Twitter).* The Reds also outrighted pitcher Justin Lehr, but signed him for 2010.Richar, 26, hit .290/.330/.438 in 181 Triple A plate appearances this year.* The second baseman had labrum surgery in July.* He came to the Reds from the White*Sox*last July with Nick Masset in the Ken Griffey Jr. trade.* Barker, a 34-year-old first baseman, hit .285/.376/.551 with 22 home runs in 417 Triple A plate appearances this year.Full Story*|* Comments (1)*|*Categories: Cincinnati Reds | Danny Richar

  9. #128
    Moderator Gallen5862's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wilmington,NC
    Posts
    6,534

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    I am glad to see Justin Lehr is off the 40 man roster but resigned. I wonder if it was a minor league deal with a spring training invitation.

  10. #129
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,709

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallen5862 View Post
    I am glad to see Justin Lehr is off the 40 man roster but resigned. I wonder if it was a minor league deal with a spring training invitation.
    I'm extremely glad to see that. I'd really hate to lose Lehr, based on his off-the-charts intangibles (not to mention his production), but understand also that it would have been hard to save him a spot on the 40-man. This is an outstanding outcome.

  11. #130
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,577

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallen5862 View Post
    I am glad to see Justin Lehr is off the 40 man roster but resigned. I wonder if it was a minor league deal with a spring training invitation.
    http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/200.../transactions/
    From Fay:
    RHP Justin Lehr was signed to a 1-year Major League contract through the 2010 season and then was outrighted to Louisville.

  12. #131
    Moderator Gallen5862's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wilmington,NC
    Posts
    6,534

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Thanks for the contract updade Doug.

  13. #132
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    40 man roster as of now:

    Lead Pipe Locks not to be taken off (IMO, unless traded)
    Arroyo
    Bailey
    Cordero
    Cueto
    Fisher
    Harang
    Herrera
    Masset
    Owings
    Rhodes
    Volquez (who will have to be added at some point soon)

    Hanigan

    Alonso
    Francisco
    Phillips
    Rolen
    Votto

    Bruce
    Dickerson
    Stubbs
    Total 20

    Most likely to be kept on but debatable
    Bray
    Burton
    LeCure
    Maloney
    Ramirez
    Viola

    Tatum

    Janish
    Rosales
    Sutton

    Balentein
    Gomes
    Total 12
    Grand total 32

    Most likely not to stay on for one reason or another
    Thompson

    Castillo

    Nix
    Total 3
    Grand total 35

    Need cut or dealt
    Lincoln
    Taveras
    Grand total 37

    Already FA's with a chance to return to 40
    Wells
    Hernandez

    Current total 37
    Potential total 39


    Potentially needs protecting
    Chris Heisey
    Travis Wood
    Chris Valaika
    Del Rosario
    Logan Ondrusek
    Pedro Viola
    Phillipe Valiquette
    Chris Denove
    Total 8

    Could be but for one reason or another I don't think they will be protected
    Danny Dorn
    Jordan Smith
    Sean Watson
    Ben Jukich
    Miguel Rojas
    Total 5
    Grand total 13

    Am I missing anyone???
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  14. #133
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,868

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Barring a deal, this is how I expect it to shake out:

    Code:
    Pitchers (22)	
    1	Aaron Harang
    2	Bronson Arroyo
    3	Edinson Volquez
    4	Micah Owings
    5	Johnny Cueto
    6	Ramon Ramirez 
    7	Francisco Cordero
    8	Jared Burton
    9	Nick Masset
    10	Pedro Viola
    11	Bill Bray
    12	Danny Rae Herrera
    13	Carlos Fisher
    14	Logan Ondrusek
    15	Homer Bailey
    16	Arthur Lee Rhodes
    17	Matt Maloney
    18	Sam Lecure
    19	Travis Wood
    20	Phil Valiquette
    21	Jordan Smith
    22	Enerio Del Rosario
    	
    Catchers (2)	
    23	Ryan Hanigan
    24	Wilkin Castillo
    	
    Infielders (8)	
    25	Adam Rosales
    26	Drew Sutton
    27	Joey Votto
    28	Brandon Phillips
    29	Scott Rolen
    30	Yonder Alonso
    31	Paul Janish
    32	Chris Valaika
    	
    Outfielders (8)	
    33	Drew Stubbs
    34	Wladimir Balentien
    35	Jay Bruce
    36	Chris Dickerson
    37	Johnny Gomes
    38	Danny Dorn
    39	Chris Heisey
    40	Juan Francisco
    	
    Free Agents	
    	Kip Wells, Ramon Hernandez, Danny Richar, Kevin Barker
    	
    Release Waivers	
    	Willy Taveras, Mike Lincoln, Laynce Nix
    	
    Reassigned to the Minors and Exposed to Rule 5	
    	Daryl Thompson, Craig Tatum. Justin Lehr, Corky Miller, Darnell McDonald
    	
    Not Protected and Exposed to Rule 5	
    	Sean Watson. Ben Jukich. Chris Denove, Sean Henry, James Avery, Alex Smit
    	Dallas Buck, Derrick Lutz, Lee Tabor, Kris Negron, Logan Parker,
    	Travis Webb, Leo Astorga, Wes Bankston, Ruben Medina, Luis Montano
    Last edited by mth123; 11-07-2009 at 07:31 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #134
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,577

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    I'd guess that's very close, mth. Some places I think there might be questions.

    1. What do we know about Mike Lincoln's status? Has he recovered? Is he throwing? Do they project him ready for spring training? I'm no big fan of his but he was a useful member of the bullpen in 2008. If he's healthy, he seems a lot more likely to contribute to the club in 2010 than Bray, Ondrusek, del Rosario, Valiquette, Lecure, or Smith [possibly even Burton]. I wish we knew more. Maybe Doug does.

    2. I notice your [mth's] 40 doesn't leave any room for an acquisition. Do we have to go in with no more than 39 if we've any idea of making an acquisition in the Rule 5?

    3. Who's most likely to be taken away from us if mth has the 40? My guess would be Jukich.

    4. Here's a question that will probably irritate many RZers but it seems to me reasonable. If the roster's being constructed with an eye toward the best team for 2010, is it really the case that neither Kip Wells nor Darnell McDonald is likely to contribute more than any of a half dozen names on the list? [What, for instance, is the real possibility that Sam Lecure will ever be as good a pitcher as Kip Wells, even with all of Wells' problems?]

  16. #135
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,868

    Re: Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I'd guess that's very close, mth. Some places I think there might be questions.

    1. What do we know about Mike Lincoln's status? Has he recovered? Is he throwing? Do they project him ready for spring training? I'm no big fan of his but he was a useful member of the bullpen in 2008. If he's healthy, he seems a lot more likely to contribute to the club in 2010 than Bray, Ondrusek, del Rosario, Valiquette, Lecure, or Smith [possibly even Burton]. I wish we knew more. Maybe Doug does.

    2. I notice your [mth's] 40 doesn't leave any room for an acquisition. Do we have to go in with no more than 39 if we've any idea of making an acquisition in the Rule 5?

    3. Who's most likely to be taken away from us if mth has the 40? My guess would be Jukich.

    4. Here's a question that will probably irritate many RZers but it seems to me reasonable. If the roster's being constructed with an eye toward the best team for 2010, is it really the case that neither Kip Wells nor Darnell McDonald is likely to contribute more than any of a half dozen names on the list? [What, for instance, is the real possibility that Sam Lecure will ever be as good a pitcher as Kip Wells, even with all of Wells' problems?]
    1. Not sure about Lincoln, but I'd rather have Fisher or Ramirez on the roster.

    2. I'm hoping for a trade or two that frees up room and addesses some problems, but assuming none, I'd guess the Reds will try to protect their own rather than lock themselves into a guy they have to keep on the roster.

    3. I'd say some team with a rock solid starting catcher may try to save some money and take Miller, Tatum or Denove. The Reds need a 100 game starter to pair with Hanigan and that isn't either Tatum or Denove, but either could be a nice 40 game per year back-up.

    4. Wells is a free agent so he won't be on the roster unless he's signed by Nov 20. I'd personally cut Lecure loose and protect Denove instead, but I think the Reds will keep Lecure around.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25