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Thread: Which prospects do the Reds like?

  1. #1
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    Which prospects do the Reds like?

    When a prospect is traded, how do we know what the Reds really thought of the guy?

    For example, Zach Stewart was traded last week. It sounds like a big loss based on press reports, some good repors from people in the know around here, and statistics.

    But what did the Reds really think of him?

    I've always been a big Roenicke supporter Yet I always got the impression that the Reds didn't love Josh as a prospect. For example, there were always reports that Roenicke was being shined uip for a trade.

    There's probably no way to know for sure, these internal reports are undoubtedly quite secret, but aren't they the key to understanding the rationale for trades? In other words, it's hard to evaluate a trade of prospects without knowing the team's real view of the prospects.

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    From fact Drew Sutton , Jonnie Gomes and Laynce Nix have started the entire Rockies series in the outfield , you have to wonder if Chris Heisey and Drew Stubbs are truely not ready ? Or the Reds are afraid if they expose them to the majors it will hurt their trade value.

    Baker has always been reluctant to play youngsters and Jocketty while in St. Louis seemed to trade his top prospects , it makes me worry just what the future holds for the Reds " highly touted " minor leaguers. Will Reds fans even see some of them in a Reds uni ?

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    This is a great point, KC. Though it also makes me wonder if sometimes teams lose the forest for the trees. At the end of the day, production is king. I wonder sometimes if personality/ attitude ends up taking a bigger part of the calculus than it should.
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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    I think you can look at the numbers for Heisey and Stubbs at Louisville and see there's reason to believe they need more time at AAA. Good teams actually do what the Reds are now doing: not rushing prospects. As to Stewart, I suggest the Reds really liked him; remember Jocketty drafted him. Toronto also liked him; probably both sides were right. That's why we got a hall of fame 3bman for him. We didn't get Rolen for a guy who has no position and a pretty heavy contract in his own right. I think this trade was Rolen for Stewart all the way.

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    I really dont know. I really think they were trying to put Yonder in the deal for Rolen. They have left Frazier in AA all year, and they are almost refusing to call up stubbs or heisey. I think they liked Valiaka but they seem to have moved off him being a SS. Out of the high minor guys I think the only one they really like is maybe Cozart. Everyone else seems to be completely expendable to them it seems.

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    I really dont know. I really think they were trying to put Yonder in the deal for Rolen. They have left Frazier in AA all year, and they are almost refusing to call up stubbs or heisey. I think they liked Valiaka but they seem to have moved off him being a SS. Out of the high minor guys I think the only one they really like is maybe Cozart. Everyone else seems to be completely expendable to them it seems.
    I don't understand your belief they tried to make Alonso part of the deal. I know it's merely conjecture on your part, but given how Jocketty talked finally giving in on Zach Stewart, I'm not sure I can say that. I know we gave up a bit, but giving Alonso there would have been just crazy and there's no evidence that his name was ever seriously part of the discussion.
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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I don't understand your belief they tried to make Alonso part of the deal. I know it's merely conjecture on your part, but given how Jocketty talked finally giving in on Zach Stewart, I'm not sure I can say that. I know we gave up a bit, but giving Alonso there would have been just crazy and there's no evidence that his name was ever seriously part of the discussion.
    The rumors of Yonder being in the deal were floated so that makes me believe that he was really considered at some point and considering Walt said something along the lines of "we gave in" when talking about adding Stewart in the deal I think its completely possible it was Edwin, Yonder and someone else in the deal. I'm trying to read between the lines a little but I see some dots being connected.

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    First of all, I take the "giving in" remark with a grain of salt; it's the kind of thing a shrewd trader of anything says in order to make the other side feel good about what it's got--and that's important if you want to do future deals. Second, I'm not sure the "giving in" remark was applied to Stewart--maybe it was and I'm just misremembering. As I see the trade, we got something we wanted--Rolen--and so did they--Stewart. We got rid of something we wanted to get rid of--EE--and so did they--some of Rolen's money. So if that's about even, if there was anything given in on in might have been Roenicke--or the identity of Roenicke (as against some other prospect), and then Walt's remark may have been just as I suggested--i.e. a disguise for his protecting somebody else we think more highly of. Frankly, I was surprised that neither of the central field prospects was included in this trade.

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    "The young pitching was the stumbling block," Jocketty said. "We finally gave in."

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    Well, reading/hearing some scout talk makes me think they weren't that high on Roenicke and his "attitude issues" (whatever that means). Personally, I'd leave Heisey and Stubbs right where they are at, so not to be absolutely ruined by Dusto and Jacoby.

    Dusto prefers vets anyway, and I think so does Jockety too, so that's why Gomes, Nix, and an older Sutton sees the time, and not the prospects.

    It really doesn't matter in my opinion, because Dusty has lost this team. I'll be shocked it they win 10 more games the rest of the season. I suspect they'll ride the season out and hopefully they'll fire dusto and hire someone that has a clue. Until that happens, I don't care if they bring in here to play, Dusto will find a way to lose.

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    I forgot to add that I think the Reds liked Stewart,

    but they didn't like him as much as Alonso. I believe Walt thinks Alonso is the next Pujols and he's trying his darnest to fashion us into what he did in St. Louis. I'm ok with it, if it works, but it's a big gamble.....we'll see.

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    I think it's a mistake to say that players traded are ones we don't like. Usually we like them; the other side likes them. It's not that unclear that they're going to be good. I think we liked Stewart a lot.

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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I think it's a mistake to say that players traded are ones we don't like. Usually we like them; the other side likes them. It's not that unclear that they're going to be good. I think we liked Stewart a lot.
    Well what I'm saying is that they dont like anyone enough to keep them. I feel that every player is touchable and from my POV trading any of them would not surprise me after the Rolen deal. I can see them trading anyone for just about anyone else right now. Players who I thought they would only deal for long term fixes were just traded for short term fixes. I dont think they dislike guys but I certainly feel they dont have any untouchables, or players they really really value.

  15. #14
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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    It might be counter-intuitive, but the most pressing need for the Reds right now is pitching stability, not more kids getting on-the-job training.

    I liked Stewart, but really, the only way he was going to contribute before 2011 was if the Reds punted 2010, IMO.
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    Re: Which prospects do the Reds like?

    Unless they add like 20 million in payroll they are pretty much going to be forced to punt though.


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