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View Poll Results: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

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  • Yes - The workload he's put these guys under was too much

    14 15.22%
  • No - It's just a coincidence

    62 67.39%
  • Not sure

    16 17.39%
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Thread: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

  1. #1
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    We know the history of what happened in Chicago with Wood and Prior. Now, Volquez is going under the knife as we speak and Harang has been ineffective for the majority of last season and this season. Is this just a coincidence or has Dusty's methods cost the Reds two excellent pitchers?
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  3. #2
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    We know the history of what happened in Chicago with Wood and Prior. Now, Volquez is going under the knife as we speak and Harang has been ineffective for the majority of last season and this season. Is this just a coincidence or has Dusty's methods cost the Reds two excellent pitchers?
    I don't think Dusty had much of an impact on Volquez, to be honest. Harang on the other hand, that's open for debate. I won't say that Dusty ruined his career, because Harang had a heavy workload before Dusty ever showed up. But could Dusty have monitored his workload more closely? Certainly. I think several factors have led to Harang's decline, and I'd certainly attribute Dusty's usage of him as a factor. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he's ruined his career.

  4. #3
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    Pitchers get hurt. It is part of the game.

  5. #4
    Member RedsFan75's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    I blame Bud Selig's WBC for Volquez.

    Yeah I know, may not be the case, but heck if I want to blame Bud I will, dog gone it!
    Last edited by RedsFan75; 08-03-2009 at 12:39 PM.
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  6. #5
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    I put some of the blame on Baker. There are some things that are just criminal, between San Diego last year, then letting him take a 2.5 hour rain delay and sending him back out there so he could 'get the win' and both times he didn't pitching even close to the same after that.

  7. #6
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    I blame winter ball
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  8. #7
    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    I blame Bob Boone.

    Booooooooooone!!!

  9. #8
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    I like Aaron Harang.

    However, like many players who rose suddenly from outright mediocrity and marginal major league status to Cy Young candidate and then back to outright mediocrity, I will be forever curious as to exactly why Aaron's career has followed the path it has. Lots of people point back to Harang's relief effort as a turning point. Personally, I'm more interested in exactly what kind of weight Harang lost when he "slimmed down" this offseason and why he lost it.

    As for Volquez -- his mechanics were described as questionable from the moment of his aquisition as. Lots of people suggested he had a knife in his future. The good news is that Thomas John surgery isn't the velocity-robbing career killer it once was.

    You can blame The Dusty for lots of wrongs, but this ain't one of them, IMO.
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  10. #9
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    At this moment, the guy I'm worried about is Homer Bailey. He's been getting the same level of rope out there as the veterans all year, both in Louisville as well as in the bigs. Guy is still just 23 years old.

    There were only a handful of questionable decisions from Dusty about Volquez's workload last year. Harang's season undoubtedly went south after the disastrous Dusty decision to pitch him in relief, but I don't think it's a persistent workload issue that is causing his ineffectiveness.

  11. #10
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    I blame Dusty for Wayne Simpson and Gary Nolan.
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  12. #11
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    I blame Dusty for Smallville ever being a show, bad girl scout cookies and, Lebron James going to the Knicks next year. EV? I blame no one. Poor mechanics coupled with winter ball and youth caused the problems... Grr maybe Dick Pole
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  13. #12
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I put some of the blame on Baker. There are some things that are just criminal, between San Diego last year, then letting him take a 2.5 hour rain delay and sending him back out there so he could 'get the win' and both times he didn't pitching even close to the same after that.


    We don't know that overwork or usage patterns have hurt Harang at all. But if it has, let's look at the use of Harang BEFORE Baker came to the Reds.

    In the years 2005-2007, Harang pitched 211 innings, 234 innings and 231 innings -- a total of 676 innings in three years. If "overwork" hurt this pitcher, the great majority of it happened before Dusty ever got here.

    Second point: we tend around here to forget about the ballpark the Reds play in.

    Harang is now a fly ball pitcher at GABP. Even in his good years, he allowed his share of home runs. So in 2005 he allowed 22. In 2006 and 2007 -- before Dusty -- he allowed 28 each. Last year, his homers allowed ballooned and this year it remains high.

    Point is that Harang's fly ball tendencies present the likelihood that, with the slightest loss of "stuff", he would not thrive in GABP.

    Notice that Harang's strikeouts still remain high. His walks have been pretty constant. And his base hits allowed aren't dramatically worse. It's the long balls allowed that is hurting him.

    Notice also that Harang's GO/AO ratio has become appreciably more tilted to fly balls. In 2004 it was 1.16 -- actually a slight ground ball tendency. It's become worse (more fly balls) every year -- last year .77, a fairly extreme fly ball pitcher. This year similar.

    It appears that with more mileage on his arm, Harang has probably lost some stuff and needs to adjust. So far, that adjustment hasn't happened. And he is likely leaving more pitches up.

    There's a lot to chew on with this pitcher and I don't accept the argument that one relief outing or pitching to two batters after a rain delay are all that important.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-03-2009 at 05:34 PM.

  14. #13
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I like Aaron Harang.

    However, like many players who rose suddenly from outright mediocrity and marginal major league status to Cy Young candidate and then back to outright mediocrity, I will be forever curious as to exactly why Aaron's career has followed the path it has. Lots of people point back to Harang's relief effort as a turning point. Personally, I'm more interested in exactly what kind of weight Harang lost when he "slimmed down" this offseason and why he lost it.

    As for Volquez -- his mechanics were described as questionable from the moment of his aquisition as. Lots of people suggested he had a knife in his future. The good news is that Thomas John surgery isn't the velocity-robbing career killer it once was.

    You can blame The Dusty for lots of wrongs, but this ain't one of them, IMO.

    You know, for some reason, that never crossed my mind about Harang. But that is one hell of a point.

  15. #14
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    Pitchers get hurt. It is part of the game.
    Which is why I wouldn't have traded a good bat for him like Hamilton's.

  16. #15
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty ruined two more pitchers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I like Aaron Harang.

    However, like many players who rose suddenly from outright mediocrity and marginal major league status to Cy Young candidate and then back to outright mediocrity, I will be forever curious as to exactly why Aaron's career has followed the path it has. Lots of people point back to Harang's relief effort as a turning point. Personally, I'm more interested in exactly what kind of weight Harang lost when he "slimmed down" this offseason and why he lost it.

    As for Volquez -- his mechanics were described as questionable from the moment of his aquisition as. Lots of people suggested he had a knife in his future. The good news is that Thomas John surgery isn't the velocity-robbing career killer it once was.

    You can blame The Dusty for lots of wrongs, but this ain't one of them, IMO.
    I've been thinking this for a while and been afraid to say it. I'm surprised it's not been brought up more often.

    This day and age, given the circumstances, it cannot be ruled out.
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