Post Rolen trade reactions

[dougdirt]

They know what the Reds will have on the team in 2010? Who does their crystal ball say Walt is going to acquire?

It now looks like the Reds are on the hook for about $2M more than they would have been with EE. The dollars aren't a big deal. Stewart was definitely a high price to pay to get that upgrade at 3B though. I will definitely agree with that.

Is Bob going to up the payroll by 10+ million bucks? Otherwise they don't have the money to acquire anyone.

2010 Cincinnati Reds payroll committments
POS 	Player 	        2010
DL	Ed Volquez 	$0.45 
SP 	Johnny Cueto 	$0.45 
SP 	Aaron Harang 	$12.50 
SP 	Bronson Arroyo 	$11.00 
SP 	Homer Bailey 	$0.45 
RP 	Franc. Cordero 	$12.00 
RP 	Unknown 	
RP 	Arthur Rhodes 	$2.00 
RP 	Nick Masset 	$0.45 
RP 	Danny Herrera 	$0.45 
SP 	Micah Owings 	$0.50 
RP 	Carlos Fisher	$0.45 
RP 	Mike Lincoln 	$2.50 
C 	Ryan Hanigan 	$0.45 
C 	Back Up 	
1B 	Joey Votto 	$0.45 
2B 	Br Phillips 	$6.75 
SS 	Unknown 	
3B 	Scott Rolen 	$11.00 
LF 	C Dickerson 	$0.45 
CF 	Willy Taveras 	$4.00 
RF 	Jay Bruce 	$0.45 
BN 	Wlad Balentien 	$0.45 
BN 	Back Up 	
BN 	Back Up 	
BN 	Back Up 	
Total 		        $67.20

That doesn't count $1.7M in buyouts to Weathers, Hernandez and Gonzalez. So we have to acquire a starting SS, a backup catcher, a reliever and 3 other bench options. Even at the league minimum (assuming we pull ALL from our system) thats $2.4 Million bucks, placing payroll at $70M.

[Brutus]

Is Bob going to up the payroll by 10+ million bucks? Otherwise they don't have the money to acquire anyone.

2010 Cincinnati Reds payroll committments
POS 	Player 	        2010
DL	Ed Volquez 	$0.45 
SP 	Johnny Cueto 	$0.45 
SP 	Aaron Harang 	$12.50 
SP 	Bronson Arroyo 	$11.00 
SP 	Homer Bailey 	$0.45 
RP 	Franc. Cordero 	$12.00 
RP 	Unknown 	
RP 	Arthur Rhodes 	$2.00 
RP 	Nick Masset 	$0.45 
RP 	Danny Herrera 	$0.45 
SP 	Micah Owings 	$0.50 
RP 	Carlos Fisher	$0.45 
RP 	Mike Lincoln 	$2.50 
C 	Ryan Hanigan 	$0.45 
C 	Back Up 	
1B 	Joey Votto 	$0.45 
2B 	Br Phillips 	$6.75 
SS 	Unknown 	
3B 	Scott Rolen 	$11.00 
LF 	C Dickerson 	$0.45 
CF 	Willy Taveras 	$4.00 
RF 	Jay Bruce 	$0.45 
BN 	Wlad Balentien 	$0.45 
BN 	Back Up 	
BN 	Back Up 	
BN 	Back Up 	
Total 		         $67.20

That doesn't count $1.7M in buyouts to Weathers, Hernandez and Gonzalez. So we have to acquire a starting SS, a backup catcher, a reliever and 3 other bench options. Even at the league minimum (assuming we pull ALL from our system) thats $2.4 Million bucks, placing payroll at $70M.

I imagine there will be a marginal increase in payroll. I still believe one or more of those high-priced pitchers will be moved as well.

[BRM]

They aren't on the hook for all of Rolen's salary in 2010. And I have no idea if Bob is going to up payroll. None of us do.

[dougdirt]

They aren't on the hook for all of Rolen's salary in 2010. And I have no idea if Bob is going to up payroll. None of us do.

He certainly has made comments in the past that he can't if we don't show up and we certainly aren't showing up. And even if they aren't on the hook for all of Rolen in 2010, we at most have what, 8 million combined between the Rolen savings and whats left to fill out a starting shortstop, a bullpen spot and 4 bench spots (while taking into account the raises guys will get in 2011 so you have to be careful signing a multi year deal on that shortstop, meaning you can't sign a difference maker).

[TRF]

They aren't on the hook for all of Rolen's salary in 2010. And I have no idea if Bob is going to up payroll. None of us do.

7 million of it. That's a chunk for a team that really has no shot of contending as currently constructed.

And for those that might say let's see if WJ makes some deals this offseason I say to you "how'd that work last offseason?"

[BRM]

7 million of it. That's a chunk for a team that really has no shot of contending as currently constructed.

And for those that might say let's see if WJ makes some deals this offseason I say to you "how'd that work last offseason?"

Isn't it only $2M more than they would have owed EE? Not a gigantic leap in payroll.

No argument for how his deals went last offseason. We need much, much better this time around.

[dougdirt]

I imagine there will be a marginal increase in payroll. I still believe one or more of those high-priced pitchers will be moved as well.

I hope you are right, but why would the Reds trade either of them when 'we are close' and the other options are a slew of guys with no proven record at all in AAA who project to be #5 starters next year at best?

[puca]

So we have to acquire a starting SS, a backup catcher, a reliever and 3 other bench options. Even at the league minimum (assuming we pull ALL from our system) thats $2.4 Million bucks, placing payroll at $70M.

Not to mention replace arguably their best starting pitcher.

[dougdirt]

Not to mention replace arguably their best starting pitcher.

We will just go Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, Owings and Bailey.

[puca]

Isn't it only $2M more than they would have owed EE? Not a gigantic leap in payroll.

No argument for how his deals last offseason. We need much, much better this time around.

But what does he have to deal with? He can't take on much salary and doesn't have the type of minor league talent needed to acquire good, young cheap players.

He already dealt arguably the top trading chip to acquire Rolen.

[TheNext44]

Is Bob going to up the payroll by 10+ million bucks? Otherwise they don't have the money to acquire anyone.

2010 Cincinnati Reds payroll committments
POS 	Player 	        2010
DL	Ed Volquez 	$0.45 
SP 	Johnny Cueto 	$0.45 
SP 	Aaron Harang 	$12.50 
SP 	Bronson Arroyo 	$11.00 
SP 	Homer Bailey 	$0.45 
RP 	Franc. Cordero 	$12.00 
RP 	Unknown 	
RP 	Arthur Rhodes 	$2.00 
RP 	Nick Masset 	$0.45 
RP 	Danny Herrera 	$0.45 
SP 	Micah Owings 	$0.50 
RP 	Carlos Fisher	$0.45 
RP 	Mike Lincoln 	$2.50 
C 	Ryan Hanigan 	$0.45 
C 	Back Up 	
1B 	Joey Votto 	$0.45 
2B 	Br Phillips 	$6.75 
SS 	Unknown 	
3B 	Scott Rolen 	$11.00 
LF 	C Dickerson 	$0.45 
CF 	Willy Taveras 	$4.00 
RF 	Jay Bruce 	$0.45 
BN 	Wlad Balentien 	$0.45 
BN 	Back Up 	
BN 	Back Up 	
BN 	Back Up 	
Total 		        $67.20

That doesn't count $1.7M in buyouts to Weathers, Hernandez and Gonzalez. So we have to acquire a starting SS, a backup catcher, a reliever and 3 other bench options. Even at the league minimum (assuming we pull ALL from our system) thats $2.4 Million bucks, placing payroll at $70M.

According to a bunch of reports, the Reds are on the hook for around $7M of Rolen's salary next year, lets say $8M to be safe.

That drops the payroll down to around $67M for next year, baring any trades.

That leaves around $8M if they keep payroll the same. That can get one solid upgrade at SS, LF or a SP.

If the Reds can trade Harang, Arroyo or Cordero this season, that would free up around $15M, if you consider the savings this year and next. That would mean that the Reds would have around $23M next year to upgrade the team, and that could easily fill in all three holes.

[Brutus]

I hope you are right, but why would the Reds trade either of them when 'we are close' and the other options are a slew of guys with no proven record at all in AAA who project to be #5 starters next year at best?

I like Cordero, but at $12 mil, you could give Masset the closer's job and probably get similar production for $11 mil cheaper knowing all you have to do is put him as the closer and then get a replacement in the bullpen for Masset's role.

Then I'd trade Arroyo. The Reds just need to be able to find a league average pitcher to replace his production.

That's $23 mil saved, theoretically, and replaceable in talent & ability considering their positions.

I'd actually hold on to Harang still, unless I get a good offer including a ML-ready young pitcher and a good prospect in return.

[BRM]

But what does he have to deal with? He can't take on much salary and doesn't have the type of minor league talent needed to acquire good, young cheap players.

He already dealt arguably the top trading chip to acquire Rolen.

I never said he had an easy job ahead of him. Shedding Arroyo's contract will free up salary but then he has yet another starter to replace. Tough task indeed.

Alonso is the biggest chip he's got now. Then probably Frazier and Stubbs.

[TRF]

I like Cordero, but at $12 mil, you could give Masset the closer's job and probably get similar production for $11 mil cheaper knowing all you have to do is put him as the closer and then get a replacement in the bullpen for Masset's role.

Then I'd trade Arroyo. The Reds just need to be able to find a league average pitcher to replace his production.

That's $23 mil saved, theoretically, and replaceable in talent & ability considering their positions.

I'd actually hold on to Harang still, unless I get a good offer including a ML-ready young pitcher and a good prospect in return.

Yeah, and he had the option of doing this last off season. At best he can move them at the ASB next year.

[UKFlounder]

But wouldn't such a trade create a 4th hole, or would we go in-house for another starter or a closer? Do we have desirable candidates for those roles?

If the Reds can trade Harang, Arroyo or Cordero this season, that would free up around $15M, if you consider the savings this year and next. That would mean that the Reds would have around $23M next year to upgrade the team, and that could easily fill in all three holes.