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Thread: Post Rolen trade reactions

  1. #151
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactionshttp://www.redszone.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Fangraphs says statistically his production in '08 was worth $9.5 million.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...51&position=3B...bottom of the page.


    Much better value than Rolen (who they pegged at $13 million this year), especially given you're unlikely to see a repeat at the plate from the 34 year old.
    What was his production worth this year? Can you be worth negative money?

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  3. #152
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactionshttp://www.redszone.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Fangraphs says statistically his production in '08 was worth $9.5 million.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...51&position=3B...bottom of the page.


    Much better value than Rolen (who they pegged at $13 million this year), especially given you're unlikely to see a repeat at the plate from the 34 year old.
    This is where stats don't tell the whole story.

    I have argued that because of his defense EE really is just a backup player. His offense is not strong enough to justify his horrible defense. He's a around a -15 UZR/150 and the fielding bible has him the same or worse.

    A team just can't have an infielder that bad playing everyday. It hurts the pitching staff, deflates moral, and makes the team look like the bad news bears.

    You can't move him to LF or 1B, because he doesn't hit well enough to justify that move, even if he could field well there. It's not like he's Ryan Braun.

    So basically, EE is a very solid RH bat off the bench, at most a half a win player. Like I said before, and what has been echoed on MLBTR's, EE most likely will be non-tendered after the 2010 season, and the Reds can pick him up for around league minimum if they want to.

    So basically
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  4. #153
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactionshttp://www.redszone.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    This is where stats don't tell the whole story.

    I have argued that because of his defense EE really is just a backup player. His offense is not strong enough to justify his horrible defense. He's a around a -15 UZR/150 and the fielding bible has him the same or worse.

    A team just can't have an infielder that bad playing everyday. It hurts the pitching staff, deflates moral, and makes the team look like the bad news bears.

    You can't move him to LF or 1B, because he doesn't hit well enough to justify that move, even if he could field well there. It's not like he's Ryan Braun.

    So basically, EE is a very solid RH bat off the bench, at most a half a win player. Like I said before, and what has been echoed on MLBTR's, EE most likely will be non-tendered after the 2010 season, and the Reds can pick him up for around league minimum if they want to.

    So basically

    Agree. I think Rolen is a huge upgrade in terms of the confidence a team has in its infield. Offensively, I would also argue that EE was so inconsistent that his overall numbers didn't adequately tell the story. And yes, I have repeatedly given specifics on this, it is true, he was extremely inconsistent and prone to long slumps.

    In terms of overall defense, a team with Phillips and Rolen in the infield with a good or better shortstop (to be determined), with the excellent Jay Bruce defending RF, and the combo of Taveras, Dickerson, Stubbs in center, and with Hanigan's arm behind the plate, is a pretty fair defensive club. Rolen is a huge part of that. It never made sense to me that the Reds were relying on EE in a pitching/defense regime.

    I'm not very knowledgeable about the "run share" analysis, and I didn't like giving up Stewart, but Rolen brings a great deal to this ballclub. Hopefully he can stay healthy for a couple of years and the Reds build on this.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-06-2009 at 02:10 PM.

  5. #154
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports hears that Reds will pay Scott Rolen $11MM next year without help from the Blue Jays.
    Wow, what a deal if true!

    I could envision a situation where the Reds act like the Jays are picking up most of Rolen's salary so that they can tell other teams they don't have to move Harang/Arroyo, when in reality it's just a bargaining position. Why else would no one be at liberty to divulge how much of the tab the Jays are actually picking up?
    Go BLUE!!!

  6. #155
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    I think people (on both sides) are making assumptions about when the Reds are going to use the cash the Jays are sending. I don't know, but since they supposedly had room to make a move if they were in contention, it's possible they're going to just eat the difference this year and apply the cash towards next year's payroll. Who knows.
    Not all who wander are lost

  7. #156
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Who is Jon Paul Morosi and who is he hearing from?
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  8. #157
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Who is Jon Paul Morosi?
    Ken Rosenthal's colleague/partner at FOXSports. Together, they are two of the best scoop reporters in all of baseball.
    Go BLUE!!!

  9. #158
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    I guess it has to be true then. Just love those "scoopers."
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  10. #159
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    I guess it has to be true then. Just love those "scoopers."
    No one said it is gospel.

    I said
    "what a deal if true!"
    There is a lot of inaccurate information circulating out there, especially this time of year. I was just noting one report that came from a respected source. And I was also noting that it is at least plausible considering the circumstances.
    Go BLUE!!!

  11. #160
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Doesn't hurt to wish.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  12. #161
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Doesn't hurt to wish.
    Huh?
    Go BLUE!!!

  13. #162
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Again, this is the model Jocketty used in STL, and it worked. However, the Cardinals drew anywhere from 2.8 to 3.5 million fans from 1998 through his last year as GM.

    Someone wake me when the Reds do that.
    Then wake me up when they hit the lottery in the last rounds of the draft and find a Pujols. The Jocketty era in St Louis looks a whole lot different without that minor miracle.

    As for this trade I still don't like it. They took on some amount of money and gave up prospects for the privilege. Taking on more risk for less reward is never good business.

  14. #163
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Great article on the Rolen trade...

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/C...he-face-092310
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  15. #164
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Great article on the Rolen trade...

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/C...he-face-092310
    I like this thread because I was right for once.

    I also like it because it shows how bad people overvalue their "own" prospects.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  16. #165
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I also like it because it shows how bad people overvalue their "own" prospects.
    I like it because it also shows how much people undervalue baseball acumen.


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