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Thread: Post Rolen trade reactions

  1. #16
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    The Reds' acquisition of Scott Rolen is "without question the most widely panned pre-deadline trade within the industry."
    That's because all the critics analyzed it before learning about the money involved.

    No one said that the Reds got hosed on the talent level, just that Rolen makes too much money and this trade makes it harder for the Reds to do something else since it limits the teams payroll flex. That is what BP, Fangraphs, everyone at ESPN, everyone at MLBTV, and everyone else I read said.

    Now if you add in the fact that the Reds will receive around $7M in the deal, it makes much more sense. The Reds add no payroll this year, and only add around $2M next year. Throw in the money saved by trading Hairston, and it's only around $1M.

    So the Reds still have basically the same payroll flex they had before the trade, but have upgraded from a guy everyone knows is not a starting 3B, to one of the best in the majors, both defensively and offensively. Rolen is easily the best defensive 3B in the NL, and would be the 6th best offensive 3B in the NL (top ten in the majors).

    For that the Reds gave up that previously mentioned utility player who will make close to $5M next year, a 27 year old rookie relief pitcher, and solid B+ prospect.

    And they kept their payroll about the same. Had they increased their payroll by around $7M the trade makes no sense, so the money is very important, and something that every commentator on the trade missed.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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  3. #17
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Sounds like Edwin was essentially a throw-in to the deal if they really plan on releasing him.
    My guess is that the Jays wanted nothing to do with EdE. They had to accept him in order to make the finances work. If we were willing to keep EdE, we could've probably sent lesser prospects.

    I'm still cautiously optimistic about Walt, but I wonder why his critics don't bring up extending EdE on his list of "goofs" this offseason. EdE got more money than Tavares did. I guess it's because EdE was more or less a homegrown player (acquired as a prospect), so he gets more love?
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  4. #18
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    That's because all the critics analyzed it before learning about the money involved.

    No one said that the Reds got hosed on the talent level, just that Rolen makes too much money and this trade makes it harder for the Reds to do something else since it limits the teams payroll flex. That is what BP, Fangraphs, everyone at ESPN, everyone at MLBTV, and everyone else I read said.

    Now if you add in the fact that the Reds will receive around $7M in the deal, it makes much more sense. The Reds add no payroll this year, and only add around $2M next year. Throw in the money saved by trading Hairston, and it's only around $1M.

    So the Reds still have basically the same payroll flex they had before the trade, but have upgraded from a guy everyone knows is not a starting 3B, to one of the best in the majors, both defensively and offensively. Rolen is easily the best defensive 3B in the NL, and would be the 6th best offensive 3B in the NL (top ten in the majors).

    For that the Reds gave up that previously mentioned utility player who will make close to $5M next year, a 27 year old rookie relief pitcher, and solid B+ prospect.

    And they kept their payroll about the same. Had they increased their payroll by around $7M the trade makes no sense, so the money is very important, and something that every commentator on the trade missed.
    This is exactly how I'm starting to see the deal.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  5. #19
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    That's because all the critics analyzed it before learning about the money involved.

    No one said that the Reds got hosed on the talent level, just that Rolen makes too much money and this trade makes it harder for the Reds to do something else since it limits the teams payroll flex. That is what BP, Fangraphs, everyone at ESPN, everyone at MLBTV, and everyone else I read said.

    Now if you add in the fact that the Reds will receive around $7M in the deal, it makes much more sense. The Reds add no payroll this year, and only add around $2M next year. Throw in the money saved by trading Hairston, and it's only around $1M.

    So the Reds still have basically the same payroll flex they had before the trade, but have upgraded from a guy everyone knows is not a starting 3B, to one of the best in the majors, both defensively and offensively. Rolen is easily the best defensive 3B in the NL, and would be the 6th best offensive 3B in the NL (top ten in the majors).

    For that the Reds gave up that previously mentioned utility player who will make close to $5M next year, a 27 year old rookie relief pitcher, and solid B+ prospect.

    And they kept their payroll about the same. Had they increased their payroll by around $7M the trade makes no sense, so the money is very important, and something that every commentator on the trade missed.
    Perhaps, but Rolen comes with an expiration date of the end of the 2010 season.

    With Edison's injury and with the Reds lacking money or high-level prospects to make up for the resulting hole in the rotation, they basically traded away two prospects in order to try and finish ahead of the Pirates next year.

  6. #20
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Perhaps, but Rolen comes with an expiration date of the end of the 2010 season.

    With Edison's injury and with the Reds lacking money or high-level prospects to make up for the resulting hole in the rotation, they basically traded away two prospects in order to try and finish ahead of the Pirates next year.
    I see Rolen being here for a year or two after that.

  7. #21
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I see Rolen being here for a year or two after that.
    That's not unlikely, but how productive is he going to be at age 36 and 37?
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  8. #22
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Perhaps, but Rolen comes with an expiration date of the end of the 2010 season.

    With Edison's injury and with the Reds lacking money or high-level prospects to make up for the resulting hole in the rotation, they basically traded away two prospects in order to try and finish ahead of the Pirates next year.
    On the day of the trade, either Dusty or Walt said they were looking to keep Rolen beyond 2010. I think it was Dusty. He said that they wouldn't trade prospects that good for a rental.

    Kind of fits Walt's MO in StL of picking up good players near the end of their contracts and finding a way to keep them.

    Now, I admit, Rolen isn't a potential MVP and not exactly the dream target, but there's a method to the madness here.

    I also say that if you are stuck with Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero, you might as well try to win with them. It seems right now that the most likely scenerio is that they will walk in 2 years and we are going to be starting over again.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #23
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    That's not unlikely, but how productive is he going to be at age 36 and 37?
    he'll be awesome. there's no such thing as aging

    personally, I am hoping that they offer him role of player-manager
    2015, baby!

  10. #24
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    he'll be awesome. there's no such thing as aging

    personally, I am hoping that they offer him role of player-manager

    It's occurred to me; it would be a way to get another 3.5 million toward his salary.

  11. #25
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    It occurred to me that one of the reasons the Reds got Rolen was for his leadership. I wonder what that says for the self-proclaimed leader of the team, Brandon Phillips?
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  12. #26
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    It occurred to me that one of the reasons the Reds got Rolen was for his leadership. I wonder what that says for the self-proclaimed leader of the team, Brandon Phillips?
    I'm guessing the only person who thinks Brandon Phillips is the leader of the team is Brandon Phillips.

  13. #27
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    It occurred to me that one of the reasons the Reds got Rolen was for his leadership. I wonder what that says for the self-proclaimed leader of the team, Brandon Phillips?
    I offered up the same thought a few days back.

    I predict friction and pouting.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I see Rolen being here for a year or two after that.
    If he is productive enough for the Reds to want to keep him then he will be too expensive for it to be a good idea.

  15. #29
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    I'm guessing the only person who thinks Brandon Phillips is the leader of the team is Brandon Phillips.

    That's why I said "self-proclaimed".
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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    Re: Post Rolen trade reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    On the day of the trade, either Dusty or Walt said they were looking to keep Rolen beyond 2010. I think it was Dusty. He said that they wouldn't trade prospects that good for a rental.

    Kind of fits Walt's MO in StL of picking up good players near the end of their contracts and finding a way to keep them.

    Now, I admit, Rolen isn't a potential MVP and not exactly the dream target, but there's a method to the madness here.

    I also say that if you are stuck with Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero, you might as well try to win with them. It seems right now that the most likely scenerio is that they will walk in 2 years and we are going to be starting over again.

    He is an asset next year because the Cardinals and Jays are paying a large part of his contract. If he is here past 2010 it will be entirely on the Reds bill.


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