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Thread: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

  1. #31
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Just watched Harris play 3b in Oakland a couple weeks ago. I doubt he can play short credibly.
    I was sort of joking. Sort of.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  3. #32
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I was sort of joking. Sort of.

    Thought you might be but figured the info was worth sharing. I really did see him just get eaten alive by a couple of fairly ordinary balls to 3b. He's no everyday infielder.

  4. #33
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by schroomytunes View Post
    Rolen wasn't acquired to just get a good clubhouse guy/ veteran for the team, he was aquired knowing we needed an upgrade at 3rd base for 2010 and it allows us to ignore that spot in the offseason. Now the goal in August is to be able to trade either Harang/Arroyo,Weathers,Gomes, or Nix to free up payroll flexability come the FA period. It wont net us blue-chip prospects, but we need to be able to shop!!! As I see it were looking at:

    Needs:
    1)SS-we must nab a veteran here ala Scutero/Everett
    ---or move BP and acquire a 2b

    2)LF-obvious here but it must come through trade or FA

    3)SP-we need to aquire a #3/4 type starter say Marquis to shore up the corps and let Wood battle Owings for the 5th spot.

    These can be done but w/o moving 1 of the above pitcher's than its a mute point.
    That's it? It is going to be a moot point if we move a pitcher or not. So we move Arroyo and acquire another 3-4 type (which is arroyo?). What have we done to improve (besides hopefully a few dollars)? We acquire a "veteran" shortstop (agon?). I don't know how much you all think we are going to improve by swapping out light contracts. Don't you think the person who is contemplating trading for bronson would just sign the available player who is better and cheaper (if all moves take place in offseason)? We also need much more than a #3-4 type pitcher in order to be competitive (unless he means competitive with the pirates). We are a #1 and a #2-3 type away from being a true contender.
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  5. #34
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Maybe they don't mean "moving" as in moving to short, but "moving" as in moving to another team.

    Just food for thought.
    Sorry, here's the full quote from Fay:

    The Reds didn’t move Todd Frazier to second base as a prelude to moving Brandon Phillips to shortstop. But Walt Jocketty didn’t dismiss the idea.

    “The reason we moved Frazier – we probably should have done it earlier – was with (Juan) Francisco at third and (Zack) Cozart at shortstop, we wanted to see if (Frazier) could play second. We know he can play the outfield, third and short.
    I think we can assume that Fay asked Jocketty if moving Frazier was a prelude to moving BP to SS and that was Jockety's answer.
    Last edited by TheNext44; 08-05-2009 at 01:08 AM.
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  6. #35
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    First, big bombshell from Fay today. Jocketty on why Frazier's been playing 2B lately:



    That's a large step farther than anyone in the Reds organization has made toward moving Phillips to SS, ever. There has been a consistent denial that that would ever happen.

    I know it's not much, but it shows me that Jocketty is open to the idea.

    IMHO, I think that one of Krivsky's biggest goofs was signing Agon instead of a 2B and moving Phillips to SS. Phillips had not established himself as a 2B yet, and there was even talk before Lopez was traded that they would flip positions.

    It really made no sense, since SS are always harder to find than 2B. I have no idea who was available that year to play 2B, but a league average 2B and Phillips at SS would have been better and cheaper than Gonzo at SS and Phillips at 2B.

    It might be too late, but I am glad to see that Jocketty is at least open to the idea of Phillips playing SS.
    I am wondering if he is doing it to move Brandon. And I don't mean to SS either. It definitely has to be a consideration.

  7. #36
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    If Harang goes to the Yankees, they have a ton of chaff, fifth starter types in the minor leagues. And, while I'd certainly not choose that as my trading goal, it may be something Jocketty would look for.
    It all depends on what the Reds think of Harang's chances to bounce back.

    If they think (or know) his early success was due to steroids, then yes give him away.

    If Harang is just having a rough year, don't give him away for a 5th starter type or salary relief.

    People are chomping at the bit to give Arroyo away for salary relief. I'm not sure how that helps. Sure, it frees up 11 million (?), but then we're going to either sign a Josh Fogg for 3 million or an adequate pitcher for 7 million.

    I'm all for trading anyone on this roster for talent that helps us move forward, but probably the only player I'd simply give away is Cordero.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  8. #37
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Thought you might be but figured the info was worth sharing. I really did see him just get eaten alive by a couple of fairly ordinary balls to 3b. He's no everyday infielder.
    Yes, it was, thanks. I actually had lost track of Harris since he left the Reds. He and Cody Ross are sort of the same player in my mind--WK acquisitions that never got a chance to play in Cincy.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  9. #38
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    It all depends on what the Reds think of Harang's chances to bounce back.

    If they think (or know) his early success was due to steroids, then yes give him away.

    If Harang is just having a rough year, don't give him away for a 5th starter type or salary relief.
    Wait a minute... are people seriously talking about Aaron Harang and steroids? Crazy talk.

    IMO, his "rough year" isn't actually too off from his career norms. Those years with a 3.70 ERA may be gone, but I still see him as a useful 4.00 to 4.50 ERA type pitcher with decent K numbers. Don't pay any attention to his record--that's mostly due to the Reds putrid offense. He could just as easily have 9 or 10 wins right now.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  10. #39
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Wait a minute... are people seriously talking about Aaron Harang and steroids? Crazy talk.
    Agreed.

    IMO, his "rough year" isn't actually too off from his career norms. Those years with a 3.70 ERA may be gone, but I still see him as a useful 4.00 to 4.50 ERA type pitcher with decent K numbers. Don't pay any attention to his record--that's mostly due to the Reds putrid offense. He could just as easily have 9 or 10 wins right now.
    His PitchFX data is kind of interesting. The thing I noticed was that his slider isn't quite breaking like it used to.

    Obviously, it's the 'roids.
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  11. #40
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Wait a minute... are people seriously talking about Aaron Harang and steroids? Crazy talk.
    Sorry, it was more of a hypothetical thing than an accusation.

    IMO, his "rough year" isn't actually too off from his career norms. Those years with a 3.70 ERA may be gone, but I still see him as a useful 4.00 to 4.50 ERA type pitcher with decent K numbers. Don't pay any attention to his record--that's mostly due to the Reds putrid offense. He could just as easily have 9 or 10 wins right now.
    Yep, that's why I don't see the point in dealing him to the Yankees for a #5 chaff starter to save money. Trading Harang for a #5 pitcher making 4-5 million isn't going to move the team forward. I'd rather have Harang (and his upside) at a higher salary. I guess the equation changes in the last year of his contract, but why not keep him for next year, especially if his trade value is low?
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  12. #41
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    First, big bombshell from Fay today. Jocketty on why Frazier's been playing 2B lately:

    Quote:
    “The reason we moved Frazier – we probably should have done it earlier – was with (Juan) Francisco at third and (Zack) Cozart at shortstop, we wanted to see if (Frazier) could play second. We know he can play the outfield, third and short.


    “It wasn’t done with idea of moving Brandon. That doesn’t mean that won’t happen. But it’s never been discussed.”
    Frazier was a SS his entire collegiate career. Was there some determination made, within this organization, that he'd never be a solid SS at the ML level and needed to be moved positionally because we're somehow "crowded" at the SS position in our farm system?

    Zach Cozart looks impressive so far for AA Carolina; but I'm not impressed with Justin Tordi at all. And I'll say the same for Chris Valaika at Louisville. And Luis Bolivar, at age 28, and also at Louisville, ain't no prospect.

    So who is considered the Red's top SS prospect? Do we even have one?

    A couple years ago I was on board at moving BP to SS. Not so much any more. He has flourished at 2B and won a GG. No doubt he's a defensive gem there; but that doesn't necessarily translate into the same success at SS.

    So why possibly mess with, and maybe screw up, a good thing?
    Last edited by GAC; 08-05-2009 at 03:26 PM.
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  13. #42
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Frazier was a SS his entire collegiate career. Was there some determination made, within this organization, that he'd never be a solid SS at the ML level and needed to be moved positionally because we're somehow "crowded" at the SS position in our farm system?

    Zach Cozart looks impressive so far for AA Carolina; but I'm not impressed with Justin Tordi at all. And I'll say the same for Chris Valaika at Louisville. And Luis Bolivar, at age 28, and also at Louisville, ain't no prospect.

    So who is considered the Red's top SS prospect? Do we even have one?
    I would say Cozart is by far our best SS prospect. MLB ready glove, plut he's shown constant improvement with the stick. Posted a .787 OPS last year in a Dayton, and is carrying a .786 OPS this year in Carolina. I think he could be a .750 OPS bat in the majors if his development continues. He's not going to be a superstar, but he can be a solid major league SS.

    Junior Arias, Humberto Valor, (Miguel?) Rojas and Billy Hamilton are all a little young to get a complete gauge on their potential. There seems to be quite a bit of a drop off in SS prospects after Cozart (or at least there seems to be more question marks).

  14. #43
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I would say Cozart is by far our best SS prospect. MLB ready glove, plut he's shown constant improvement with the stick. Posted a .787 OPS last year in a Dayton, and is carrying a .786 OPS this year in Carolina. I think he could be a .750 OPS bat in the majors if his development continues. He's not going to be a superstar, but he can be a solid major league SS.

    Junior Arias, Humberto Valor, (Miguel?) Rojas and Billy Hamilton are all a little young to get a complete gauge on their potential. There seems to be quite a bit of a drop off in SS prospects after Cozart (or at least there seems to be more question marks).
    Miller mentioned that Cozart will be in the mix for the starting SS job in Cincy next year, which is a real good sign.

    If he can OPS .750 and provide the defense he's been providing, he would be one the leagues top SS. I would be very happy if he OPS'ed around .700. He is showing more power than Janish, so there is hope. And SS make the jump from AA to the majors all the time.

    He might not make the opening day roster, but I think Cozart will be the Reds SS for most of 2010. At least I'm hoping.
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  15. #44
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Miller mentioned that Cozart will be in the mix for the starting SS job in Cincy next year, which is a real good sign.

    Oh, is Dusty not going to be the manager next year?
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  16. #45
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    Re: I expect one or more of Harang, Arroyo or Cordero to be traded this month

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Miller mentioned that Cozart will be in the mix for the starting SS job in Cincy next year, which is a real good sign.

    If he can OPS .750 and provide the defense he's been providing, he would be one the leagues top SS. I would be very happy if he OPS'ed around .700. He is showing more power than Janish, so there is hope. And SS make the jump from AA to the majors all the time.

    He might not make the opening day roster, but I think Cozart will be the Reds SS for most of 2010. At least I'm hoping.
    I'm not saying he will be a .750 OPS bat next year. I'm saying he can be at some point in the future.

    Also, I severely doubt he'll be playing over Alex Gonzalez next year. Not kidding. He's going to be resigned. Watch.


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