That's it? It is going to be a moot point if we move a pitcher or not. So we move Arroyo and acquire another 3-4 type (which is arroyo?). What have we done to improve (besides hopefully a few dollars)? We acquire a "veteran" shortstop (agon?). I don't know how much you all think we are going to improve by swapping out light contracts. Don't you think the person who is contemplating trading for bronson would just sign the available player who is better and cheaper (if all moves take place in offseason)? We also need much more than a #3-4 type pitcher in order to be competitive (unless he means competitive with the pirates). We are a #1 and a #2-3 type away from being a true contender.
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Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. ~Bull Durham
Sorry, here's the full quote from Fay:
I think we can assume that Fay asked Jocketty if moving Frazier was a prelude to moving BP to SS and that was Jockety's answer.The Reds didn’t move Todd Frazier to second base as a prelude to moving Brandon Phillips to shortstop. But Walt Jocketty didn’t dismiss the idea.
“The reason we moved Frazier – we probably should have done it earlier – was with (Juan) Francisco at third and (Zack) Cozart at shortstop, we wanted to see if (Frazier) could play second. We know he can play the outfield, third and short.
Last edited by TheNext44; 08-05-2009 at 01:08 AM.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
It all depends on what the Reds think of Harang's chances to bounce back.
If they think (or know) his early success was due to steroids, then yes give him away.
If Harang is just having a rough year, don't give him away for a 5th starter type or salary relief.
People are chomping at the bit to give Arroyo away for salary relief. I'm not sure how that helps. Sure, it frees up 11 million (?), but then we're going to either sign a Josh Fogg for 3 million or an adequate pitcher for 7 million.
I'm all for trading anyone on this roster for talent that helps us move forward, but probably the only player I'd simply give away is Cordero.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
“Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC
Wait a minute... are people seriously talking about Aaron Harang and steroids? Crazy talk.
IMO, his "rough year" isn't actually too off from his career norms. Those years with a 3.70 ERA may be gone, but I still see him as a useful 4.00 to 4.50 ERA type pitcher with decent K numbers. Don't pay any attention to his record--that's mostly due to the Reds putrid offense. He could just as easily have 9 or 10 wins right now.
“Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC
Agreed.
His PitchFX data is kind of interesting. The thing I noticed was that his slider isn't quite breaking like it used to.IMO, his "rough year" isn't actually too off from his career norms. Those years with a 3.70 ERA may be gone, but I still see him as a useful 4.00 to 4.50 ERA type pitcher with decent K numbers. Don't pay any attention to his record--that's mostly due to the Reds putrid offense. He could just as easily have 9 or 10 wins right now.
Obviously, it's the 'roids.
Sorry, it was more of a hypothetical thing than an accusation.
Yep, that's why I don't see the point in dealing him to the Yankees for a #5 chaff starter to save money. Trading Harang for a #5 pitcher making 4-5 million isn't going to move the team forward. I'd rather have Harang (and his upside) at a higher salary. I guess the equation changes in the last year of his contract, but why not keep him for next year, especially if his trade value is low?IMO, his "rough year" isn't actually too off from his career norms. Those years with a 3.70 ERA may be gone, but I still see him as a useful 4.00 to 4.50 ERA type pitcher with decent K numbers. Don't pay any attention to his record--that's mostly due to the Reds putrid offense. He could just as easily have 9 or 10 wins right now.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
Frazier was a SS his entire collegiate career. Was there some determination made, within this organization, that he'd never be a solid SS at the ML level and needed to be moved positionally because we're somehow "crowded" at the SS position in our farm system?First, big bombshell from Fay today. Jocketty on why Frazier's been playing 2B lately:
Quote:
“The reason we moved Frazier – we probably should have done it earlier – was with (Juan) Francisco at third and (Zack) Cozart at shortstop, we wanted to see if (Frazier) could play second. We know he can play the outfield, third and short.
“It wasn’t done with idea of moving Brandon. That doesn’t mean that won’t happen. But it’s never been discussed.”
Zach Cozart looks impressive so far for AA Carolina; but I'm not impressed with Justin Tordi at all. And I'll say the same for Chris Valaika at Louisville. And Luis Bolivar, at age 28, and also at Louisville, ain't no prospect.
So who is considered the Red's top SS prospect? Do we even have one?
A couple years ago I was on board at moving BP to SS. Not so much any more. He has flourished at 2B and won a GG. No doubt he's a defensive gem there; but that doesn't necessarily translate into the same success at SS.
So why possibly mess with, and maybe screw up, a good thing?
Last edited by GAC; 08-05-2009 at 03:26 PM.
"In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)
I would say Cozart is by far our best SS prospect. MLB ready glove, plut he's shown constant improvement with the stick. Posted a .787 OPS last year in a Dayton, and is carrying a .786 OPS this year in Carolina. I think he could be a .750 OPS bat in the majors if his development continues. He's not going to be a superstar, but he can be a solid major league SS.
Junior Arias, Humberto Valor, (Miguel?) Rojas and Billy Hamilton are all a little young to get a complete gauge on their potential. There seems to be quite a bit of a drop off in SS prospects after Cozart (or at least there seems to be more question marks).
Miller mentioned that Cozart will be in the mix for the starting SS job in Cincy next year, which is a real good sign.
If he can OPS .750 and provide the defense he's been providing, he would be one the leagues top SS. I would be very happy if he OPS'ed around .700. He is showing more power than Janish, so there is hope. And SS make the jump from AA to the majors all the time.
He might not make the opening day roster, but I think Cozart will be the Reds SS for most of 2010. At least I'm hoping.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
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