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Thread: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

  1. #1
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Brantley was on the pre game show tonight and was talking rather candidly about Cueto. He was basically saying that Cueto was dabbling way too much with a two seam fastball this year when he's much more successful just throwing the four seamer. I've heard him say the same thing about Harang on the radio. I don't know a whole lot about pitching and honestly can't tell the difference between the two varieties of pitches. The only thing I know is that Cueto's average fastball velocity has tailed off a bit this year and his K rate has taken even more of a dive. I'm sure there's someone on here who knows a thing or two about pitching and can answer this question: Has Cueto been throwing more two seamers this year, and do you agree with Brantley that he and Harang are better off cutting loose four seamers?

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    I think more good Dick Pole thread titles is exactly what this forum needs. What an untapped resource!

    Sorry, don't know much about two-seamers though.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #3
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Brantley's lobbying for the pitching coach gig, IMO.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Brantley's lobbying for the pitching coach gig, IMO.
    Give it to him yesterday. He knows pitching and pitching mechanics, and will force guys to throw the ball inside.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    Give it to him yesterday. He knows pitching and pitching mechanics, and will force guys to throw the ball inside.

    Talking a good game and actually executing your philosophy are 2 different things. I hope he gets it so I don't have to listen to him any more.
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  7. #6
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    The four seam and two seam fastballs get their name from the way the pitcher grips the ball. Obviously, the grip effects the rotation of the pitch (which in turn effects movement).

    A four seam fastball generally has more velocity and less vertical movement (it actually appears to rise but that's an illusion due to the fact that a four seamer doesn't sink as much as other pitches). A really good four seamer will appear to "pop" across the strikezone (described as having "second stage" velocity) and it should tail or veer into a same handed hitter as it passes through the strikezone as well (i.e. generally little vertical movement but horizontal movement into the same-handed batter). It's the fastball that is meant to challenge the hitter's reflexes and thus miss bats. However, since four seamers don't have vertical movement (i.e. sink) they can be up in the zone and as anyone who has ever tried to hit a ball far will attest, its easier to hit a homer on a ball up. So the trade off is more flyballs and thus more homers.

    A two seam fastball generally has less velocity but much more movement (generally sink). It's purpose isn't to miss bats but rather to induce grounders (think Brandon Webb). The trade off is more contact in favor of less homers. In other words, the strategy is use the defense more. However, grounders also tend to end of being hits more often than flyballs do....

    Finally, and perhaps counter intuitively to someone who has never pitched, two-seam fastballs are generally easier to command than four seamers.

    Life is a trade off....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Life is a trade off....
    Also a highway.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Member GADawg's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    I think Dick Pole has been smokin' a two seamer....while we're talking about coaches how does Brook Jacoby keep his job?

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    Member Nasty_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Brantley's lobbying for the pitching coach gig, IMO.
    +1

    That's exactly what I've been thinking with all of his mechanical breakdowns and "gameplan" talk lately.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Why stop with making Brantley the pitching coach?

    Make Marty the manager, too.

    We'd get both of them off the air, and with the two of them in charge from the dugout, the Reds would be no worse than 160-2 each year.

  12. #11
    Member GADawg's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    Why stop with making Brantley the pitching coach?

    Make Marty the manager, too.

    We'd get both of them off the air, and with the two of them in charge from the dugout, the Reds would be no worse than 160-2 each year.
    Please can Grande coach first or something?

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Also a highway.
    So you're sayin' you wanna ride it all night long?

  14. #13
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by GADawg View Post
    Please can Grande coach first or something?

    "Hi, hello and welcome to 1st base. Hey, Carlos Zambrano's pitching and you know his story. Try not to get picked off so you can scamper to 2nd."
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  15. #14
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Also a highway.
    A highway that's like a box of chocolates.

  16. #15
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dick Pole Pushing A Two Seamer?

    Speaking of pitching coaches, what ever happened to Don Gullett and Leo Mazzone?

    Gullett was wrongly blamed for the Reds lack of pitching talent, and was a great pitching coach.
    Mazzone might be a hall of fame pitching coach.

    Why are they not in the majors right now, and why have the Reds not tried to hire them?
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein


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