No suprise really.
No suprise really.
This is actually good news. If a teamed had claimed them, the Reds could only work out a deal with that team. Now they are free to shop them to any team.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
I think the surprise will be if they get dealt. Personally I'd rather Arroyo go then Harang but if this team is hurting for money and think their are better options that will soon hit free agency then do it. If they are not adding payroll though I don't get the Rolen trade if they are paying his full 11 million next season. I wish this team had some kind of plan.
"I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans
2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L
2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L
2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L
2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L
My feeling is still that Harang has some value and shouldn't necessarily be sold at his lowest value. Basically, I don't just want to give him away.
Arroyo however, I'd give up for a bag of balls.
"Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."
I think both can significantly improve their value with 2-3 more good outings before the end of the month.
Honestly I would expect that neither has much trade value
What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand
Perhaps it's fair to say neither might not have much value in terms of getting much in return, but as far as simply taking the salaries off the Reds' hands, they might be able to pull that off.
Personally, I'd trade Arroyo to anyone that will take him for a warm heartbeat, and keep Harang less I get something of value in return.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
Issue isn't trade value. Issue is whether anyone will take the contract of either of them. If the Reds want a meaningful player return, the Reds will have to pay much cash in the deal.
Harang and Arroyo were signed before the big decline in FA contracts last winter. And both have slipped in performance. The result is a mismatch -- the contracts no longer fit the pitchers.
The harsh reality is that the likely interest will be for Harang and nobody will offer much more than salary relief. In Arroyo's case, the likelihood is that the Reds would have to pay a considerable part of the contract in any trade.
I don't see Bob paying much money for the privilege of shedding Bronson. So that deal is less likely to happen.
The question is whether Bob will basically give Harang away to reduce the team's payroll commitments.
My answer is probably yes. Harang's numbers the last two years may be an aberration, but he is a fly ball pitcher in a home run paradise and, all emotions aside, the deal probably has to be made.
Harang is still a solid big league pitcher. The only way I'd trade him is if I get a good prospect or two in return.
I miss Adam Dunn.
I guess I don't see the point in giving either player away.
Likewise for Weathers. I hope we get a decent prospect for him. I'm not expecting a Jay Bruce type, but a decent prospect.
For everyone bemoaning the contracts, don't they expire at the end of 2010 anyhow?
If we give Bronson away, are we going to get anyone better on the FA market at the same price? Not likely, since the Reds have to overpay people to come here.
I'm all for trading anyone if we get fair value, but I'm not going to help LA, Boston or any contender by giving them Harang or Arroyo. Those teams need pitching help more than we need salary relief. Once Walt gets a reputation for just giving players away, he's not going to be a in a good bargaining position for the future (much like the Pirates, who get lowballed all the time).
Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
It would hurt, but the deal probably needs to be made.
Over the last two years Harang is 12-30 (W-L) with an
ERA of about 4.6. The NL league average ERA this year for a starting pitcher is 4.32. He's allowed 57 homers in 2008 and 2009 combined so far. Even considering the GABP effect, Harang has -- generously -- been an average starter the last two years. Most people would likely say below average.
His best attribute is his sturdiness. He throws a ton of games and innings and he has great mechanics so he seldom misses a turn. But for how long will he be effective given all the innings he's compiled? He's thrown over 1,300 innings.
On top of this, he is only signed for one more year and then there is an option. If they keep him, he costs $12.5 million next year and then has a $2 million buyout reportedly. (If the Reds picked up his option after 2010, the salary amounts are even higher.) So Harang is likely gone after next year anyway.
Harang seems like a great guy and teammate and he would be a huge loss in terms of the community and the Reds' identity. But in terms of dollars and cents and being able to put together the best team, a trade of his contract makes sense, even if the player return is modest.
Last edited by Kc61; 08-10-2009 at 06:05 PM.