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Thread: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

  1. #16
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    I'm still a fan of Dunn, and I'm glad he's doing well in Washington.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

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  3. #17
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    Because both sides werent going to agree, so it was time, we need to accept it, file it and move on, it's down the Ohio now.
    It seems like one side (management) had made up it's mind, but rather than giving logical reasons, they just used the "it's time to move on" cop-out excuse.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  4. #18
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    It seems like one side (management) had made up it's mind, but rather than giving logical reasons, they just used the "it's time to move on" cop-out excuse.
    Exactly my thoughts. I think it is a shame they didn't work to re-sign him--especially since his contract ended up being way below the price people like Arroyo originally predicted.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  5. #19
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    It seems like one side (management) had made up it's mind, but rather than giving logical reasons, they just used the "it's time to move on" cop-out excuse.
    It's to bad that he left, it's too bad that he still gets crap for his game from guys (who think they represent the Reds more than the all time Reds leader in games played in LF and that I wish would leave (like Brantley))

    In fact there's a ton of too bads in this equation, as it's too bad that they haven't replaced his bat, that it's too bad that the team still sucks without his K's and awesome power and that most of all this team is too bad without him as they were with him.

  6. #20
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    It's to bad that he left, it's too bad that he still gets crap for his game from guys (who think they represent the Reds more than the all time Reds leader in games played in LF and that I wish would leave (like Brantley))

    In fact there's a ton of too bads in this equation, as it's too bad that they haven't replaced his bat, that it's too bad that the team still sucks without his K's and awesome power and that most of all this team is too bad without him as they were with him.
    For a long time, I was of the opinion that the Reds should part ways with Dunn. That it would be hard to replace his production, but not impossible.

    But as I have watched the offense go from merely bad to horribly unbelievably historically horrific, I realize how horribly wrong I was. This team wasn't going to win with Dunn on this team or not this year. But it would have come a hell of a lot closer.

  7. #21
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    For a long time, I was of the opinion that the Reds should part ways with Dunn. That it would be hard to replace his production, but not impossible.

    But as I have watched the offense go from merely bad to horribly unbelievably historically horrific, I realize how horribly wrong I was. This team wasn't going to win with Dunn on this team or not this year. But it would have come a hell of a lot closer.
    Except, they've got a LF right now OPS'ing 900 in 200 PA's. While that player is not Adam Dunn, nor would he produce consistently at Adam Dunn's level, that position has been producing at a similar level.

    So really, the offense is not in much of a different situation than if it still had Dunn, but it would be even more strapped for cash and have even less financial flexibility than before.

    Hence, I'm fine with it.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Except, they've got a LF right now OPS'ing 900 in 200 PA's. While that player is not Adam Dunn, nor would he produce consistently at Adam Dunn's level, that position has been producing at a similar level.

    So really, the offense is not in much of a different situation than if it still had Dunn, but it would be even more strapped for cash and have even less financial flexibility than before.

    Hence, I'm fine with it.
    Well, I see your point. But I highly doubt Gomes puts up an OPS around .900 as an every day player. I very well could be wrong about that, but we'll see.

    You KNOW going into a year Dunn is going to get you 40 home runs. With Gomes, it's a toss up. He could hit 25-30, or he could bat .200 and get cut as he did in Tampa.

    But you're right to factor in the cash difference, it is significant. But the Reds never actually spend the cash on anything worthwhile, so I've tired of talking about money they can save.

  9. #23
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Except, they've got a LF right now OPS'ing 900 in 200 PA's. While that player is not Adam Dunn, nor would he produce consistently at Adam Dunn's level, that position has been producing at a similar level.
    Reds LF OPS: .694.

    Yeah, Gomes has played nice in <200 PA. But that "position" has absolutely NOT been producing at a similar level.

    So really, the offense is not in much of a different situation than if it still had Dunn, but it would be even more strapped for cash and have even less financial flexibility than before.
    Maybe. Or maybe not. There's no telling what other moves might've been made.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  10. #24
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Reds LF OPS: .694.

    Yeah, Gomes has played nice in <200 PA. But that "position" has absolutely NOT been producing at a similar level.



    Maybe. Or maybe not. There's no telling what other moves might've been made.
    Between Laynce Nix and Jonny Gomes, in about 470 plate appearances, their combined OPS right now is around 825.

    If it was truly just a platoon between those two, that OPS is one of the most productive on the team. The 694 number you're citing is a combination of McDonald, Dickerson, Balentien and Hairston. It's not indicative of how the main two (Gomes and Nix) have played.

    Baker's misuse of the personnel is responsible for the overall OPS you cite, not organizational philosophy. The main two LF guys on the roster HAVE been producing as a whole (though Nix has tailed off).
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #25
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Between Laynce Nix and Jonny Gomes, in about 470 plate appearances, their combined OPS right now is around 825.

    If it was truly just a platoon between those two, that OPS is one of the most productive on the team. The 694 number you're citing is a combination of McDonald, Dickerson, Balentien and Hairston. It's not indicative of how the main two (Gomes and Nix) have played.

    Baker's misuse of the personnel is responsible for the overall OPS you cite, not organizational philosophy. The main two LF guys on the roster HAVE been producing as a whole (though Nix has tailed off).
    I was going off of:

    While that player is not Adam Dunn, nor would he produce consistently at Adam Dunn's level, that position has been producing at a similar level.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #26
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I was going off of:
    I realize that. But I consider those two the LF position. Anyone else that has played there has been due to managerial incompetence. It's not fair to say the Reds have not found suitable replacement for the position, because clearly they have - at least to this point. Usage of such replacement(s) is another issue altogether.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #27
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I realize that. But I consider those two the LF position. Anyone else that has played there has been due to managerial incompetence. It's not fair to say the Reds have not found suitable replacement for the position, because clearly they have - at least to this point. Usage of such replacement(s) is another issue altogether.
    Cherry-picking stats and you know it.

    Dunn's averaged what, 155+ games a season, so he's the LF position for the Reds' past.

    Therefore, you need to consider all the personnel that's played in LF this year for the Reds, rather than just Gomes and Nix.

    That being said, those who have played LF not named Gomes or Nix has put up some awesome numbers, wouldn't you say?

    It's plenty fair to say the Reds haven't found a suitable replacement for Adam Dunn in LF, due to the fact the players not named Gomes or Nix that have played LF for the Reds in 2009.

  14. #28
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Cherry-picking stats and you know it.

    Dunn's averaged what, 155+ games a season, so he's the LF position for the Reds' past.

    Therefore, you need to consider all the personnel that's played in LF this year for the Reds, rather than just Gomes and Nix.

    That being said, those who have played LF not named Gomes or Nix has put up some awesome numbers, wouldn't you say?

    It's plenty fair to say the Reds haven't found a suitable replacement for Adam Dunn in LF, due to the fact the players not named Gomes or Nix that have played LF for the Reds in 2009.
    It's not cherry-picking anything.

    True or false. The combination of Gomes-Nix has produced an OPS of 825? Look it up. It's true. And it's a sample of well over 400 plate appearances.

    That's above-average production at the position. That's not cherry-picking anything. If Jay Bruce had not been hurt, the Nix-Gomes combination would be doing just fine all to themselves in left. There's nothing selective about that statement.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #29
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    It's not cherry-picking anything.

    True or false. The combination of Gomes-Nix has produced an OPS of 825? Look it up. It's true. And it's a sample of well over 400 plate appearances.

    That's above-average production at the position. That's not cherry-picking anything. If Jay Bruce had not been hurt, the Nix-Gomes combination would be doing just fine all to themselves in left. There's nothing selective about that statement.
    So what about the guys not named Gomes or Nix that have played LF for the Reds in 2009?

    How have they fared?

    Are you just going to ignore them?

  16. #30
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: More kind words from Dunn as he makes his return to Cincy

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    So what about the guys not named Gomes or Nix that have played LF for the Reds in 2009?

    How have they fared?

    Are you just going to ignore them?
    Reds LF

    .233/.299/.395/.694


    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/...t/83/league/nl


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