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Thread: EPL 2009/2010 Season

  1. #31
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    This is a huge tangent in a way and quoting myself is not exactly the most literary thing to do, but this seemed appropriate. In my last post, I mentioned the World Soccer Daily Podcast which starred Steven Cohen and Graham Harrell, two Brits (Harrell is a Scot) who live in LA and talk all things soccer. I ran across the podcast a few days ago and really enjoyed it. However, this Friday was the last podcast and it couldn't have ended in any more ignominious way. Cohen is a huge Chelsea fan and he expected a certain amount of harassment from other fans, but they went way too far. Cohen began to receive a large amount of Anti-Semitic emails and calls from Liverpool fans (exclusively) and it got so bad that official Liverpool supporters groups were sending all kinds of letters and petitions to the Podcast's sponsors denouncing the show and its hosts. Steven finally decided to stop the show when, sitting at home, he heard the doorbell ring at a strange hour and was scared for his family. It turned out to be a kid putting his kid through college by selling something, but he decided that he couldn't live this way. So, this Friday he decided to end the show.

    Now, the show was on Sirius as well as released in podcast form, so I'm not entirely sure if the audience is exclusively American or if the Brits tune in as well. But, one of the reasons I love soccer is the passion for the game and the partisanship between teams. However, stories like this are showing up more and more in Europe, and to hear that it is (probably) happening here is extremely disturbing. This really makes me sick. I know that this group of fans is a very vocal minority and that I shouldn't let it color my view of Liverpool and its typically terrific fans, however I cannot simply let this slip by without it registering on my radar. I'm never going to see Anfield in quite the same light.

    I know that Steven is never going to read this post, but these stories need to be told. The worst part of all of this is that the Anti-Semitic fans are getting exactly what they wanted, namely that Steven and the show are going away. Here is hoping that Steven makes some kind of come back and is allowed to do so with the same freedom and comfort that the rest of us are able to enjoy.
    I don't think it's quite as simple as that:
    http://www.epltalk.com/steven-cohen-...rough-disaster
    Cohen was absolutely wrong on his April 13th show regarding the statements he made about the Hillsborough Tragedy. There were not, as he claimed, 6,000-8,000 ticketless fans. Cohen was emphatically wrong when he claimed that Sheffield Wednesday’s Hillsborough Stadium was used week-in week-out without incident. And the reason none of the English newspapers last Sunday discussed the “6-8,000 who showed up without tickets” is because they didn’t exist. The vast majority of English journalists and pundits know better because they’ve taken time to study the facts rather than to believe the lies told by The Sun and the South Yorkshire Police.
    http://www.usatoday.com/community/pr...c-0db7f9abaf16
    Wynalda replaces Steven Cohen, an English-born radio host who recently drew protests from Liverpool fans and the club itself for comments saying unticketed fans were a major factor in the 1989 stadium disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died. U.S. fans of the club led an effort to convince sponsors to distance themselves from Cohen's shows. Cohen apologized, claiming he had received death threats.
    Granted, death threats and anti-semitism aren't a particularly compelling way to remedy issues, but I'm not sure Cohen is completely innocent in this situation.
    Last edited by ochre; 08-22-2009 at 01:56 PM. Reason: cleared out youtube embedding. Video no longer there, and didn't really mean to bring it over in the copy/paste.
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  3. #32
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    More on soccer fans bad behavior in the story below. FIFA turns a blind eye to fan behavior, and in some cases like in Mexico, it is encouraged. In Europe the clubs do little to reign in rabid and sometimes racist fan groups.

    Bondy: No excuse for vile behavior
    Saturday, August 22, 2009

    For the sake of making a point, letís pretend Ron Artest is a U.S. soccer player. Now letís visualize something more realistic: Heís involved in a shoving match with a Mexican player.

    Artestís reaction is a confusing attempt at passiveness. He lies down near the corner flag with his hands clasped under his head.

    Only this isnít a basketball arena in Detroit, and getting hit with one beer is the least of Artestís worries.

    Lying within throwing distance of Azteca Stadiumís vile fans, Artest is pelted with at least five beers, two cups of urine, a bag of vomit and three batteries.

    Artest tries to run into the crowd but is blocked by a moat and a barbed wire fence. The place is a war zone. Security either doesnít care or wonít dare venture outside of the aisles. Artestís only option is to run back to the U.S. sideline and hose off the excrement.

    Then he trots back on the field ó 7,200 feet above sea level ó and attempts to win a World Cup qualifier.

    Welcome to the life inside CONCACAFís trenches. It requires guts, evasive instincts and the kind of self control that Artest or any other professional athlete never will have to summon.

    You canít punch the fans because you canít get to them. You canít complain because nobody will listen. According to witnesses speaking to Yahoo.com after the Aug. 12 World Cup qualifier, one Mexican fan decided to chug a beer, stick a finger in his mouth to regurgitate that beer, and then chuck the cardboard cup at U.S. striker Landon Donovan as he took a corner kick. His friend did the same with a cup of fresh urine.

    The behavior absolutely is despicable, and absolutely unexplainable. There is no reason one of richest soccer federations in the world should allow such foul conduct. But itís commonplace in Azteca Stadium.

    The Americans have dealt with it for years in a place they never have won, and they will continue to deal with it as long as spectators can hurl objects without repercussion. For the safety of a group of traveling U.S. fans, riot-squad guards had to circle them to form a shield.

    If Juventus has to play in an empty stadium because its fans are racist (as it did last season), Mexico should do the same for bodily fluids finding their way onto the pitch.

    Aug. 12 was the first time I covered a U.S.-Mexico game at Azteca Stadium and, although my experience pales in comparison to that of the players, I certainly got a taste.

    There was no press box in a stadium that seats more than 100,000. No (working) Internet. No barrier between journalists and inebriated fans calling us, "gringos."

    One colleague was forced to write a story while a man in face-paint ó standing about four feet from the press area ó screamed in his face and gestured obscenities.

    We adapted, of course, just as Charlie Davies did by halting his goal celebration because of flying objects. By the time the third beer rained down on the press area, we learned to cover our laptops first, our heads second. Azteca can be navigated as long as you donít mind the smell of stale beer.

    But it shouldnít be like this. And American players should stop calling it "a unique environment." Itís an inexcusable environment.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  4. #33
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre View Post
    I don't think it's quite as simple as that:
    http://www.epltalk.com/steven-cohen-...rough-disaster

    http://www.usatoday.com/community/pr...c-0db7f9abaf16

    Granted, death threats and anti-semitism aren't a particularly compelling way to remedy issues, but I'm not sure Cohen is completely innocent in this situation.
    I haven't heard much from Cohen. In fact I've avoided him because more knowledgeable soccer fans than I have said his actions are to the level of a soccer equivalent of Bill Cunningham. He thrives on creating controversy and from what I've heard, he's not above having his stooges call in as fake fans to give the show some punch. He's had an ongoing hatefest with Liverpool and constantly antagonizes Liverpool fans by belittling them and blaming them for the tragedy at Hillsborough even though the FA and English Government investigated it and absolved fans of blame, stating that the problems arose from improper crowd control and design flaws at the stadium. They had a problem with a lot of ticketed fans arriving late because of traffic issues on the major British highway from Liverpool to Sheffield and, in order to deal with the crowd, they simply opened more gates and funneled people into already overcrowded fenced-in pens rather than diverting the incoming crowd to empty seating areas to either side. Cohen still blames "drunken Liverpool fans" for the tragedy.

    While I disagree with fans using Anti-Semitic and threats on his call-in show, based on what I've heard of the guy, a part of me wonders if this isn't some sort of stunt to generate controversy while he takes a vacation and then returns with the podcast claiming "victory" over the big bad Liverpool fans.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  5. #34
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    More on soccer fans bad behavior in the story below. FIFA turns a blind eye to fan behavior, and in some cases like in Mexico, it is encouraged. In Europe the clubs do little to reign in rabid and sometimes racist fan groups.
    Actually, I think UEFA, the EPL, the Dutch League and some other European leagues have been trying to cut down on the racist behavior among fans as they've started to market their leagues globally. Of course there's still a problem with it in some leagues, especially those in the Balkans and Eastern Europe, which haven't quite hit the global jackpot that the top leagues have.

    Notice in the story that Juventus had to play a game in front of an empty stadium because of racist behavior among its fans. That to me shows even Serie A, where Lazio fans were using the Nazi salute a few years back, is taking things seriously.

    On the other hand, CONCACAF has some serious issues with fan behavior, but I don't see anything happening to curb it until something tragic happens. CONCACAF is notorious for corruption among confederation officials, starting with it's chief, Jack Warner. There are rumors that he has used his office to collect bribes and install his henchmen into the upper echelons of most CONCACAF national federations. So unless something happens to the degree where the public outcry will become so intense that FIFA will have no other recourse that to push him out and seek changes in how CONCACAF runs things, things won't change.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  6. #35
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    By the way, is it just me, or does Man U's primary jersey for this season make them look like the soccer team for a Star Trek Convention?
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  7. #36
    Member improbus's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    By the way, is it just me, or does Man U's primary jersey for this season make them look like the soccer team for a Star Trek Convention?
    Agreed. They also remind me of something Steve McQueen would have worn while racing motorcycles...
    Last edited by improbus; 08-22-2009 at 09:14 PM.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  8. #37
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I haven't heard much from Cohen. In fact I've avoided him because more knowledgeable soccer fans than I have said his actions are to the level of a soccer equivalent of Bill Cunningham. He thrives on creating controversy and from what I've heard, he's not above having his stooges call in as fake fans to give the show some punch. He's had an ongoing hatefest with Liverpool and constantly antagonizes Liverpool fans by belittling them and blaming them for the tragedy at Hillsborough even though the FA and English Government investigated it and absolved fans of blame, stating that the problems arose from improper crowd control and design flaws at the stadium. They had a problem with a lot of ticketed fans arriving late because of traffic issues on the major British highway from Liverpool to Sheffield and, in order to deal with the crowd, they simply opened more gates and funneled people into already overcrowded fenced-in pens rather than diverting the incoming crowd to empty seating areas to either side. Cohen still blames "drunken Liverpool fans" for the tragedy.
    To a certain degree that sounds like alot of sports radio guys, only this was the wrong issue to use in that way. I didn't know the history of him and his comments on Hillsborough, but they seem to have been short-sighted. Thanks for the info.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  9. #38
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    To a certain degree that sounds like alot of sports radio guys, only this was the wrong issue to use in that way. I didn't know the history of him and his comments on Hillsborough, but they seem to have been short-sighted. Thanks for the info.
    Just looking around the web, it looks like another reason for the possible demise of World Soccer Daily is that Cohen's comments regarding Hillsborough may have driven off all his sponsors.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  10. #39
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Actually, I think UEFA, the EPL, the Dutch League and some other European leagues have been trying to cut down on the racist behavior among fans as they've started to market their leagues globally. Of course there's still a problem with it in some leagues, especially those in the Balkans and Eastern Europe, which haven't quite hit the global jackpot that the top leagues have.

    Notice in the story that Juventus had to play a game in front of an empty stadium because of racist behavior among its fans. That to me shows even Serie A, where Lazio fans were using the Nazi salute a few years back, is taking things seriously.

    On the other hand, CONCACAF has some serious issues with fan behavior, but I don't see anything happening to curb it until something tragic happens. CONCACAF is notorious for corruption among confederation officials, starting with it's chief, Jack Warner. There are rumors that he has used his office to collect bribes and install his henchmen into the upper echelons of most CONCACAF national federations. So unless something happens to the degree where the public outcry will become so intense that FIFA will have no other recourse that to push him out and seek changes in how CONCACAF runs things, things won't change.
    Actually, you're right about the EPL. For all the games that I watch on Fox Soccer Channel, the crowds seem great and they're right on top of the field with no barriers.

    Serie A gets tough occasionally ... like in Juve's case or Lazio's. But they still have way too many problems between the Ultra fan groups and police. I think just instituting a ban on bringing flares/M80s to the game would do wonders.

    Central America and Mexico is like the wild west. Anything goes at those stadiums.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  11. #40
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Just looking around the web, it looks like another reason for the possible demise of World Soccer Daily is that Cohen's comments regarding Hillsborough may have driven off all his sponsors.
    Absolutely. The Liverpool fan groups were bombarding his sponsors with appropriate and inappropriate criticism of Cohen. We'll find out if you're right or not if the show is able to continue sans Cohen.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  12. #41
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Despite the 1-0 score, Fulham are playing Chelsea very well. They simply haven't been able to make that final pass. Fulham are certainly much improved over the teams that were constantly fighting relegation battles.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  13. #42
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Burnley does it again, 1-0 over Everton at Turf Moor. Wow. Burnley is playing inspired football (and living a charmed life, Everton missed a penalty ala United last week). Everton are off to a horrific start.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  14. #43
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    Despite the 1-0 score, Fulham are playing Chelsea very well. They simply haven't been able to make that final pass. Fulham are certainly much improved over the teams that were constantly fighting relegation battles.
    Fulham should be solidly mid table this year. It is nice to see a club that loves Yanks doing well.

  15. #44
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Liverpool drops three more points...Rafa will start feeling the tingle from his ever-warmer seat soon.

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    Re: EPL 2009/2010 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    They had a problem with a lot of ticketed fans arriving late because of traffic issues on the major British highway from Liverpool to Sheffield and, in order to deal with the crowd, they simply opened more gates and funneled people into already overcrowded fenced-in pens rather than diverting the incoming crowd to empty seating areas to either side. Cohen still blames "drunken Liverpool fans" for the tragedy.
    Hillsbrough will never be forgotton

    I have heard many stories from hillsbrough locals that don't put all the blame with SY police.


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