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Thread: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

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  1. #1
    Louisville Bats Expert batsfan's Avatar
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    Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Juan Francisco is now appearing on the Bats roster. I can't understand how the Reds think he is more ready for AAA than Frazier, but I am exited to see if he can keep it going at a higher level.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    I'm really starting to hate how they are pushing this guy up so hard, yet Todd Frazier sitting there doing everything better and doesnt even get the time of day.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    I'm really starting to hate how they are pushing this guy up so hard, yet Todd Frazier sitting there doing everything better and doesnt even get the time of day.
    OR it means Frazier is the 3B at AA.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    OR it means Frazier is the 3B at AA.
    If anyone was going up to AAA it should be Frazier. If hes going to play 3rd at AA now hes just blocked by Juan.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Very short sighted move. The Reds have Scott Rolen until July 2010 at the very least (they won't trade him before then and we would have to be downright Nationals bad to trade him next year given the love WJ has for him). The Reds have questions about left field and shortstop next season, but left both Cozart (SS) and Frazier (LF) down in AA to promote a 3B.

    Juan has played pretty well over his last 3 months. He has hit .314/.361/.555 with 13 walks and 41 strikeouts. Thats an average K/BB rate and the first stretch he has ever really had where it seems like he had an actual plan at the plate. Still, very short sighted move by the Reds.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Juan has played pretty well over his last 3 months. He has hit .314/.361/.555 with 13 walks and 41 strikeouts.
    Pretty well? I'd give him more credit than that. At some point you have to admit the kid is a legitimate prospect who has made big progress in his approach.

    What's shortsighted about this move? How could it backfire in the long run? For all we know, the Reds are showcasing Francisco for a trade. With the promotion of Barker, they needed someone, and it's likely Rick Sweet had some input, looking at what he wanted on his infield, and it's also likely David Bell was asked for his opinion. I tend to think the people on the inside have a lot better perspective here.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Pretty well? I'd give him more credit than that. At some point you have to admit the kid is a legitimate prospect who has made big progress in his approach.

    What's shortsighted about this move? How could it backfire in the long run? For all we know, the Reds are showcasing Francisco for a trade. With the promotion of Barker, they needed someone, and it's likely Rick Sweet had some input, looking at what he wanted on his infield, and it's also likely David Bell was asked for his opinion. I tend to think the people on the inside have a lot better perspective here.
    I think the problem mainly is his line over 3 months isnt any better than Frazier has been for his whole minor league career or his AA numbers for the season

  8. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Pretty well? I'd give him more credit than that. At some point you have to admit the kid is a legitimate prospect who has made big progress in his approach.
    His approach has been pretty good the last 3 months compared to what it was, but its still over a 3-1 K/BB rate and thats about where guys are considered iffy. You can give him more credit if you want. I give him a ton of credit for making the change, but in the grand scheme of things his K/BB rate is still questionable if we only look at the last 2+ months.

    What's shortsighted about this move? How could it backfire in the long run? For all we know, the Reds are showcasing Francisco for a trade. With the promotion of Barker, they needed someone, and it's likely Rick Sweet had some input, looking at what he wanted on his infield, and it's also likely David Bell was asked for his opinion. I tend to think the people on the inside have a lot better perspective here.
    What is short sighted about it is that two other guys in AA play positions that we need to fill in 2010 and have performed well enough to get a promotion (Frazier and Cozart). Instead we promoted a 3B with a long history of plate discipline issues who has had all of 40% of 1 season where he has shown he has a clue of what he is doing at the plate outside of 'swing at everything' when we have a guy that we just traded for to play 3B through 2010, while we have no internal options other than Frazier or Cozart to start at SS or LF for us in 2010, but we aren't going to give them a look and see what they have in AAA this year? That is the definition of short sighted.

    As for how it can backfire.... well by not knowing what Frazier/Cozart can do in AAA it basically means we have no plans of them starting April 2010 in the majors. That means we will go out and spend money to bring someone in to play. That means when those guys are ready, they will still be in the minors while the money plays and probably sucks because we aren't going to spend enough money to get someone good there. So we could very well be stuck with another A Gonz performance at SS next year because we know that the money plays in Cincinnati, meaning that well, we are going to again suck in 2010.

  9. #9
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    His approach has been pretty good the last 3 months compared to what it was, but its still over a 3-1 K/BB rate and thats about where guys are considered iffy. You can give him more credit if you want. I give him a ton of credit for making the change, but in the grand scheme of things his K/BB rate is still questionable if we only look at the last 2+ months.


    What is short sighted about it is that two other guys in AA play positions that we need to fill in 2010 and have performed well enough to get a promotion (Frazier and Cozart). Instead we promoted a 3B with a long history of plate discipline issues who has had all of 40% of 1 season where he has shown he has a clue of what he is doing at the plate outside of 'swing at everything' when we have a guy that we just traded for to play 3B through 2010, while we have no internal options other than Frazier or Cozart to start at SS or LF for us in 2010, but we aren't going to give them a look and see what they have in AAA this year? That is the definition of short sighted.

    As for how it can backfire.... well by not knowing what Frazier/Cozart can do in AAA it basically means we have no plans of them starting April 2010 in the majors. That means we will go out and spend money to bring someone in to play. That means when those guys are ready, they will still be in the minors while the money plays and probably sucks because we aren't going to spend enough money to get someone good there. So we could very well be stuck with another A Gonz performance at SS next year because we know that the money plays in Cincinnati, meaning that well, we are going to again suck in 2010.
    I don't see what Cozart being in AA has to do with Francisco. He does not play the same position. So promoting Francisco and not Cozart is a non-starter. Not even relevant to the discussion.

    You could argue Frazier should have been called before Francisco, since they at least have some positional likeness to them. So if we're looking down the road, Frazier, in theory, would be ready first so he's the one they should call up. It seems to me, though, that they aren't planning on using Frazier at third, meaning then they really want to challenge Francisco.

    I would like to get Frazier ready for after next season. That's assuming, though, he settles in at third. If the Reds don't have that plan, then calling up Juan is not really all that bad.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #10
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I don't see what Cozart being in AA has to do with Francisco. He does not play the same position. So promoting Francisco and not Cozart is a non-starter. Not even relevant to the discussion.
    Sure it does. There was 1 open roster spot in AAA. Francisco got it despite the fact that the Bats have a 3B, but don't have a SS. They have even said they don't view Valaika as a SS (Rick Sweet said it earlier this year).

    You could argue Frazier should have been called before Francisco, since they at least have some positional likeness to them. So if we're looking down the road, Frazier, in theory, would be ready first so he's the one they should call up. It seems to me, though, that they aren't planning on using Frazier at third, meaning then they really want to challenge Francisco.
    Frazier playing 3rd or not playing 3rd doesn't matter much to me. He CAN play left and looking into 2010, the Reds don't have a left fielder. The Reds DO have a 3B. If Frazier were to perform well in AAA over the rest of August and into the playoffs you would imagine the Reds would at least entertain the idea of him as an option for 2010. They still may, but I doubt it. Fact is, both Frazier and Cozart COULD be options for 2010 spots of need. Francisco doesn't supply that same value at all.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    is how I feel about this move actually.
    Last edited by GIDP; 08-15-2009 at 02:35 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    How could it backfire in the long run? For all we know, the Reds are showcasing Francisco for a trade.
    If the intention was to showcase him for a trade, it would make a whole lot more sense to let him build up a gaudy stat line at AA than it would to throw him into AAA and see if he comes to the surface.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Maybe the intention is, to get Juan some AB's in AAA, so he won't be completely over matched when he gets called up during September call ups.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by redhawk61 View Post
    Maybe the intention is, to get Juan some AB's in AAA, so he won't be completely over matched when he gets called up during September call ups.
    I also think they may be throwing a bone to the Bats. They were the top team in the IL before all of the roster turnover of late. Barker was their power hitter, a role that Francisco should be able to fill well. While player development should be the number one priority, they also have to think about the relationships they have with their affiliates and those fans. It seems to me (IMO) that Francisco fills the void left by Barker better than Frazier.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Juan has played pretty well over his last 3 months. He has hit .314/.361/.555 with 13 walks and 41 strikeouts. Thats an average K/BB rate and the first stretch he has ever really had where it seems like he had an actual plan at the plate.
    You're just looking at his offense.. I've seen him play in person a few times this year and he's flat out lazy. He won't lay out for balls near him and he really doesn't play his position well at all. I hope the Reds can trade him or else we'll have another EE on our hands in a few years.


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