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Thread: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

  1. #46
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!


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  3. #47
    Member 11larkin11's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    I think Dusty may have been comparing him to Vlad due to Vlad and JF's both uncanny ability to hit pitches out of the zone a long way. They're both really good "bad ball" hitters
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  4. #48
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Now I am truly vexed.

    I ask the question, "What?"
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  5. #49
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    I think its a mistake.
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    It's really unbelievable how Reds fans refuse to see the value JF could have to the Reds. It seems that some fans read the BB column and black out all else.

    This guy is a powerhouse. He could be a major long ball hitter. His OBP skills are improving and his power and RBI games are off the charts. He is just 22.

    I'm glad the Reds seem to see his value, even if fans would prefer a dozen other prospects.

  7. #51
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    No one refuses to see it. Most of us just see that he isnt very valuable in his current state of development.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by 11larkin11 View Post
    I think Dusty may have been comparing him to Vlad due to Vlad and JF's both uncanny ability to hit pitches out of the zone a long way. They're both really good "bad ball" hitters
    Their stats are truly incomparable. Vlad has him by about .090 OBP at every step.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Juan has played pretty well over his last 3 months. He has hit .314/.361/.555 with 13 walks and 41 strikeouts. Thats an average K/BB rate and the first stretch he has ever really had where it seems like he had an actual plan at the plate.
    You're just looking at his offense.. I've seen him play in person a few times this year and he's flat out lazy. He won't lay out for balls near him and he really doesn't play his position well at all. I hope the Reds can trade him or else we'll have another EE on our hands in a few years.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    No one refuses to see it. Most of us just see that he isnt very valuable in his current state of development.
    No, JF is repeatedly undervalued by Reds fans. It has been repeatedly said around here that he won't be even an average major league player because of his walks. Just read the posts, the polls, the top ten rankings around here, it's all over the place.

    Francisco is an extra base and RBI machine. He needs work on other aspects of the game, but there are few if any hitters in the Reds organization with the kind of power and RBI numbers JF has had in the minor leagues. And he is still very young and got two hits at AAA today.

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It's really unbelievable how Reds fans refuse to see the value JF could have to the Reds. It seems that some fans read the BB column and black out all else.

    This guy is a powerhouse. He could be a major long ball hitter. His OBP skills are improving and his power and RBI games are off the charts. He is just 22.

    I'm glad the Reds seem to see his value, even if fans would prefer a dozen other prospects.
    I'm not so down on JF as many, but you can't overlook his stikeout tendancies as he moves up. AAA pitchers and later, MLB hurlers, will be able to use it to let him get himself out, fewer long balls may go out of the park and he risks going from bad ball hitter to bad ball misser.

    I'm cautiously optomistic about Juan, but I think he might have a rough learning curve the next couple of seasons. We'll see though. I thought Jay Bruce would actually put up decent OBP numbers. If Francisco turns out to be legit and nears his longball potential at the MLB level it would be monstrous for the Reds.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 08-16-2009 at 12:42 AM.

  12. #56
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    No, JF is repeatedly undervalued by Reds fans. It has been repeatedly said around here that he won't be even an average major league player because of his walks.
    That is simply incorrect. What people do say is he either needs to walk more or strikeout less because guys can't be successful major leaguers with such a discrepency between your walks and strikeouts. You can get by without walking much, but you have to put the ball in play 90% of the time and he doesn't. So he needs to walk more often than he has.

    Francisco is an extra base and RBI machine. He needs work on other aspects of the game, but there are few if any hitters in the Reds organization with the kind of power and RBI numbers JF has had in the minor leagues. And he is still very young and got two hits at AAA today.
    You are right here. No one has the power that Francisco has and his RBI numbers are pretty good. However he also does something very bad.... provides very few RBI chances for anyone hitting behind him. He has stuff that you can't teach. He also has a whole lot to learn too though.

  13. #57
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    That is simply incorrect. What people do say is he either needs to walk more or strikeout less because guys can't be successful major leaguers with such a discrepency between your walks and strikeouts. You can get by without walking much, but you have to put the ball in play 90% of the time and he doesn't. So he needs to walk more often than he has.



    You are right here. No one has the power that Francisco has and his RBI numbers are pretty good. However he also does something very bad.... provides very few RBI chances for anyone hitting behind him. He has stuff that you can't teach. He also has a whole lot to learn too though.
    As a 7 hole hitter, I have no problem with him not providing the guys behind him many RBI chances, as long as he hits in guys in front of him. If he had Stubbs-Hanigan-Votto-Phillips-Rolen-Bruce in front of him with SS and P behind him, I have no problem with him knocking those guys in.

    Now if you want him 3-4-5, theres the slight problem
    Domo Arigato, Here Comes Joey Votto

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  14. #58
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    No, JF is repeatedly undervalued by Reds fans. It has been repeatedly said around here that he won't be even an average major league player because of his walks. Just read the posts, the polls, the top ten rankings around here, it's all over the place.

    Francisco is an extra base and RBI machine. He needs work on other aspects of the game, but there are few if any hitters in the Reds organization with the kind of power and RBI numbers JF has had in the minor leagues. And he is still very young and got two hits at AAA today.
    I dont think anyone would disagree with your post. We would just disagree with how positives the positives are and how negative the negatives are. Its not that we dont see the good parts of Juan we just dont think he will ever continue the good parts with out fixing the bad parts a lot more then he even is. Juan has the ability to be a very good slugger, but most of us feel hes closer to a .700 OPS bat than he is the .900 one given what his current skill set is right now.

  15. #59
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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    19% K rate is really not bad. Heck, the league average in the majors is usually around 18%. While I do realize it's AA, that is offset for me by his young age. So really, strikeouts are not that big of an issue if he maintains these rates or keeps getting better.

    The walk rate is an issue. Even in the context of using BB/K ratio, I'm not going to chide someone for being league average in strikeouts. So if Francisco can maintain a K rate below 20 in the majors, there should be no issues there.

    Discipline as a whole is certainly questionable. And you won't make it in the majors with only drawing a walk 4.3% of the time. But if he manages to get that to a respectable 8-10%... he might have a very bright future offensively.

    He can keep the strikeouts right where they are at. It's really not that bad. But in any circumstance, he just needs to get on base more often.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    19% K rate is really not bad. Heck, the league average in the majors is usually around 18%. While I do realize it's AA, that is offset for me by his young age. So really, strikeouts are not that big of an issue if he maintains these rates or keeps getting better.

    The walk rate is an issue. Even in the context of using BB/K ratio, I'm not going to chide someone for being league average in strikeouts. So if Francisco can maintain a K rate below 20 in the majors, there should be no issues there.

    Discipline as a whole is certainly questionable. And you won't make it in the majors with only drawing a walk 4.3% of the time. But if he manages to get that to a respectable 8-10%... he might have a very bright future offensively.

    He can keep the strikeouts right where they are at. It's really not that bad. But in any circumstance, he just needs to get on base more often.
    Very well said.


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