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Thread: Rosales Wins Award

  1. #61
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I don't know how you can post things like this, but then at the same time, scoff at people who suggest that based on an entire minor league career of being "not sufficient for the major leagues", that Justin Lehr is suddenly a viable rotation candidate because he's posted 3 decent results based starts. It's just completely inconsistent logic.
    I'm not saying Justin Lehr is a viable rotation candidate, all I'm saying is give a guy a chance to prove whether he is or not before declaring that he isn't.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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  3. #62
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    These days, it is a sin to hustle. It must mean you have no talent.
    Unfortunately zero people have made that argument.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  4. #63
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Unfortunately zero people have made that argument.
    Really?
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  5. #64
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Really?
    Yep.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  6. #65
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Really?
    Really.

    Hustle is a nice garnish.

    Talent is the meal.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #66
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    I'm all for giving Lehr his shot for now...heck he's getting the job done.

    Rosales on the other hand is not. His stats tell the story. He is often made to look silly at the plate when facing a good pitcher (way more often than he should...we know everyone will get fooled from time to time). Are we really advocating giving this guy 600 ABs to see if he can stick...cause for me he just doesn't pass the eyeball test, and his stats back that up.

    On the other hand, if we need him to fill in the rest of the year due to injuries thats fine...but if the objective is to see how well Rosales will fair in the bigs, I think he's answered that question for us. I'm not knocking his hustle either, but at some point there needs to be a hint of production. Could he eventually improve, sure...but as soon as possible get him back in the minors where he belongs.

    Other than the fact that Pete Rose hustled and had an OPS of .705 his rookie year (Rosales is at .606 for his career by the way), what merits Rosales getting 600 ABs in the big leagues?

  8. #67
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Really.

    Hustle is a nice garnish.

    Talent is the meal.
    Anything wrong with the expectation of both?
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  9. #68
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Yep.
    Things must look and sound different in "Dogpatch" than they do in my neck of the woods.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  10. #69
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I'm all for giving Lehr his shot for now...heck he's getting the job done.

    Rosales on the other hand is not. His stats tell the story. He is often made to look silly at the plate when facing a good pitcher (way more often than he should...we know everyone will get fooled from time to time). Are we really advocating giving this guy 600 ABs to see if he can stick...cause for me he just doesn't pass the eyeball test, and his stats back that up.

    On the other hand, if we need him to fill in the rest of the year due to injuries thats fine...but if the objective is to see how well Rosales will fair in the bigs, I think he's answered that question for us. I'm not knocking his hustle either, but at some point there needs to be a hint of production. Could he eventually improve, sure...but as soon as possible get him back in the minors where he belongs.

    Other than the fact that Pete Rose hustled and had an OPS of .705 his rookie year (Rosales is at .606 for his career by the way), what merits Rosales getting 600 ABs in the big leagues?
    Nothing justifies giving Rosales a full season worth of playing time and PAs.

    He's not an everyday player.

    That's not to say he couldn't be a useful player off the bench, but he's not a useful player as an everyday option.

  11. #70
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Anything wrong with the expectation of both?
    If you're expecting both from Rosales, you're just gonna end up with parsley stuck in your teeth, and an empty stomach.

  12. #71
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    If you're expecting both from Rosales, you're just gonna end up with parsley stuck in your teeth, and an empty stomach.
    Depends on what you are expecting from him. I think you and I must be expecting two different things. He is not an everyday player right now, and probably won't ever be, and I have made that point several times. He can be a valuable utility player as he can play multiple positions. He has been overwhelmed with big league pitching as the season has progressed. Big league pitching can expose you at times, regardless of your talent, as Jay Bruce can attest. It can cause a young player to press and Rosales looks quite unsure of himself at the plate right now. Major League baseball is all about making adjustments and that can be really tough the first time around. I still think he has some ability and can be a decent role player. I don't think that is a stretch, by any means.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  13. #72
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Things must look and sound different in "Dogpatch" than they do in my neck of the woods.
    The argument is and always has been: hustle is nice, talent is better. Also, that you possess one skill set doesn't mean you'll posses the other (i.e. plenty of guys who have talent don't hustle while others hustle but have no talent).

    Whether you see or hear that is up to you. Apparently you don't.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  14. #73
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Rosales should only be on a ML roster as the 25th man, a option to fill in off the bench (rarely).

    Nothing against him or his hustle. I like to see players hustle, especially on ground balls, but I also like to see talent more. Also, seeing him sprinting around the bases after a homerun was kind of like watching the slow kid laugh at himself because he didn't realize the other kids were laughing AT him, not WITH him. A bit embarrassing.

  15. #74
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red View Post
    Also, seeing him sprinting around the bases after a homerun was kind of like watching the slow kid laugh at himself because he didn't realize the other kids were laughing AT him, not WITH him. A bit embarrassing.
    And here you've hit on the key element that those who get week in the knees over "hustle" miss when we dig on ARo.

    Running around the bases like a jackass after a home run means zero, zip, nada when it comes to wining baseball games. But it's exactly the kind of faux-hustle that some folks (many in Cincy) lap up like thirsty dogs. Running in from your position and lapping your team mates does nothing to put ones and zeros on the board.

    Assuming you have the base talent, what does matter is running as hard (and smart) as you can on the base-paths. What does matter is being heads-up and taking advantage of the other teams mental mistakes. What does matter is going after every ball like it's the 9th inning of the world series. What does help win baseball games is studying film, working out, taking extra practice, etc. That's the real, honest-to-goodness hustle. The kind that matters.

    Believe it or not, it's is fully possible to do all of the things in the second paragraph without doing anything in the first.

    And that's the part a lot of casual fans, and especially fans in Cincy miss. You can work your hiney off and give 100% without doing all the "showy" stuff that both doesn't matter and looks bush-league.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 08-17-2009 at 01:07 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  16. #75
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Rosales Wins Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red View Post
    Also, seeing him sprinting around the bases after a homerun was kind of like watching the slow kid laugh at himself because he didn't realize the other kids were laughing AT him, not WITH him. A bit embarrassing.
    Then that's something he does have in common with Pete Rose. "Charlie Hustle" was a derisive name given to him by Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford.


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