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Thread: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

  1. #61
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    What's with the harping on Francisco's failures on a night in which he goes deep again and raises his average to .421?

    Sad. 22 year old now crushing it at AAA.
    Same reason why others harp on a .421 average after 3 games.

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  3. #62
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Same reason why others harp on a .421 average after 3 games.
    Don't see it in this thread.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    What's with the harping on Francisco's failures on a night in which he goes deep again and raises his average to .421?

    Sad. 22 year old now crushing it at AAA.
    Just that some folks have been very skeptical of JF since he was a pup. They focus on his sub-par walk rate and think it could be a fatal flaw. It's a fair concern, for sure.

    I always thought there was too little emphasis on the positive. How many guys have the physical baseball ability to hit with great power as frequently as he does. I see Francisco as one of the very top guys in the Reds system.

    It's fair debate, but right now I like his chances. He's steadily improved. First his K rate improved, now his OBP rate is improving, with the power still remaining.

    He made BA's hot sheet list two weeks ago, should be there again tomorrow.

  5. #64
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Every hit he has had at Louisville has been noted here. Why not every bad K?

    Cisco has a glaring weakness to exploit. Why pitchers are throwing him strikes is a million dollar question. If you don't want to know about that, don't read these threads. I don't do this to prop up our prospects. I do it to tell everybody what's happening with the Bats. Good and bad.

  6. #65
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    I like JF, always have. I do think he needs to improve his W rate. He's young and has time to do that. The one thing he unquestionably has, power, is not something that can be taught. On the million dollar question posed by GOYA, whose updates I really appreciate, I wonder if pitchers don't need to throw him strikes for the same reason they do to all hitters: i.e. to set up ways to get the hitters out on balls out of the zone. If this is the case, it may mean his plate discipline's a little better than is obvious to fans. Just a hopeful positive thought about a kid that we all, as Reds fans, have a big stake in seeing succeed.

  7. #66
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Cisco has a glaring weakness to exploit. Why pitchers are throwing him strikes is a million dollar question. If you don't want to know about that, don't read these threads. I don't do this to prop up our prospects. I do it to tell everybody what's happening with the Bats. Good and bad.
    All hitters have weaknesses to exploit. Almost none of them have those announced each time they make an out.

    This kid has exploded in the 2nd half, is making unmistakable strides in improving his plate discipline, and has recently been described by Baseball America as having the best power in the minorleagues outside of Mike Stanton. Yet, the tone concerning his performance is more negative than that surrounding any player in the system. Go figure.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  8. #67
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Others guys weaknesses arent as big. Also Juan is a top prospect for us so its going to be discussed. All guys had it discussed from Votto to Bruce to Stubbs. They all were picked on for their flaws.

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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    I've always been a Francisco champion, and have had my faith restored after starting to doubt him earlier in the season. I'm further impressed as I look more closely at the steady progress he's made over his career, particularly the last three years.

    In each case, I'll list his last three seasons, starting in 2007 (in his rookie-league season of 2006, he had too few at-bats to compare meaningfully):

    OBP
    301
    303
    322

    HR
    25
    23
    25 (and counting)

    BA
    268
    277
    287

    RBIs
    90
    92
    81 (and counting)

    K
    161
    123
    98 (and counting)

    BB
    23
    19
    21 (and counting)

    OPS
    763
    799
    844

    The last category seems the most interesting to me. The improvement is not only steady but significant, and it has come as he has risen in levels of competition.

  10. #69
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    I've always been a Francisco champion, and have had my faith restored after starting to doubt him earlier in the season. I'm further impressed as I look more closely at the steady progress he's made over his career, particularly the last three years.

    In each case, I'll list his last three seasons, starting in 2007 (in his rookie-league season of 2006, he had too few at-bats to compare meaningfully):

    OBP
    301
    303
    322

    HR
    25
    23
    25 (and counting)

    BA
    268
    277
    287

    RBIs
    90
    92
    81 (and counting)

    K
    161
    123
    98 (and counting)

    BB
    23
    19
    21 (and counting)

    OPS
    763
    799
    844

    The last category seems the most interesting to me. The improvement is not only steady but significant, and it has come as he has risen in levels of competition.
    Very interesting. Good post.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  11. #70
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    What's with the harping on Francisco's failures on a night in which he goes deep again and raises his average to .421?

    Sad. 22 year old now crushing it at AAA.
    I've said it before:

    At RedsZone, if a player has a high OBP, nothing bad he does matters. If he has a low OBP, nothing good he does matters. Fear the walk.

    By the way ... good post mace.

  12. #71
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    The ultimate question is, where does he play? If Walt signs Rolen to a extension, which would be unwise, then there is no postion to play him in 2011 when he should be fully ready and on his last option. If Rolen breaks down next year and Cisco puts up similar numbers he should get the audition at 3B. Alonso should be ready by Sept next year and that means a trade or Votto to LF. On top of Gomes getting an extention, Balentien looking decent so far, Heisley, Dickerson and if we keep Taveras the 2 postions he can play are blocked. If there was a way to convert him to catcher I wish they would do it. I'd take a .280 OBP for 25+ HR from the Catchers postion.

    BTW he seem to be playing better D in Louisvile. I guess that field in Carolina is as bad as Doug advertised.

  13. #72
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    All hitters have weaknesses to exploit. Almost none of them have those announced each time they make an out.
    Not a weakness. A glaring weakness. The next three games are against Indy and they seem to have figured this out too. We'll see what happens. Cisco gets attention because he matters. Eric Eymann doesn't.

    Nothing is being said every time Juan makes an out. Things are being said when he strikes out on the same type pitch repeatedly. That is important.

  14. #73
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    I'm loath to say it, for fear of backlash, but in Francisco's case I think the uptick in batting average is also very important. Because he's a power hitter. He'll bat in the middle of the order and be required to drive in runs. You drive in more runs with hits than walks. In fact, the less you walk, the more runs you drive in, because you're expanding the pool of opportunities--provided that you maintain a high batting average. And especially when that high batting average is accompanied by a high slugging percentage.

    The improving batting average also suggests that he is not handicapping himself too severely with his pitch selection. That's not to say it shouldn't improve. It is improving, and hopefully will continue to.

  15. #74
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    I have been a fan of reading the minor league game threads for sometime, gives me a little joy in an otherwise dismal season. I have to admit from reading these threads daily Cisco has become a bit of a lightning rod, either because people don't like every aspect of his game or their upset that Frazier wasn't promoted. To me it seems that the vitrol has increased a lot since he was brought up to AAA and his AB's are being heavily scrutinized, similiar to everyone of Bailey's starts in the ML gamethread.

    Personally I don't think he is ready for the big club(call up in Sept for a look), but you can't deny what the guy has been able to do this year. With some more coaching I think he can turn into a really good big leaguer maybe along the lines of Giants third baseman Pedro Sandoval. Not every player is going to be a favorite but a little use of some critical thinking skills may help you see both sides of the story.
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  16. #75
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    Re: Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

    Good post, Kory Mac. On Frazier, by the way, here are his month by month OPS's.
    May: .947, June: .873, July: .829; Aug: .670. I don't cite these as a knock on Frazier. I like the kid and think he'll be a good major leaguer. What they do suggest is a very tired ballplayer--not unusual among still very young minor leaguers--and what they also suggest is that this is probably not a wise time to promote him to the next level.


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