Minor League Game Updates - Wednesday 8/19

[bubbachunk]

I will mention it, as a big Heisey supporter.

It's disappointing.

And, frankly, I don't really understand the general Francisco bashing on this board. He's a fun prospect, with a boatload of power, and still very, very young for his level.

How is pointing out a glaring weakness bashing the kid? We want him to succeed and for him to do so he must correct such weaknesses.

[membengal]

Because it is. The way it is has unfolded in this case, over the last year or so, it's bashing.

The same as when it was Stubbs being bashed by certain folks.

What is missing, sometimes, from this very wonderful part of the forum, is a longer view. We tend, sometimes, as a board, to focus on the micro and miss the macro. And miss that sometimes, guys improve.

[NJReds]

Because it is. The way it is has unfolded in this case, over the last year or so, it's bashing.

The same as when it was Stubbs being bashed by certain folks.

I think many were bashing the Reds for taking Stubbs over Lincecum. (and many thought that before the pick was made, so it wasn't second guessing).

Maybe in time that evolved to 'bashing' Stubbs, but it was born out of the frustration of watching Lincecum evolve into one of the top pitchers in baseball.

I don't think anyone here actively roots against players. And the comment about Francisco having trouble with inside breaking balls was a fair one, because he'll have to make that adjustment to have success on the next level.

[osuceltic]

Francisco strikes out swinging on a breaking ball right under his hands. Again.

This is the one that came across as bashing. And doug can wriggle around it all he wants, but the way he wrote that makes his point pretty obvious. Considering it came in the same game when he had two hits, including a HR, it just stinks of an agenda.

[bubbachunk]

This is the one that came across as bashing. And doug can wriggle around it all he wants, but the way he wrote that makes his point pretty obvious. Considering it came in the same game when he had two hits, including a HR, it just stinks of an agenda.

That whole statement is fact, not opinion.

[Kc61]

This is the one that came across as bashing. And doug can wriggle around it all he wants, but the way he wrote that makes his point pretty obvious. Considering it came in the same game when he had two hits, including a HR, it just stinks of an agenda.

Ultimately, at some point, the player will show the way. Francisco is one guy I've liked for several years and it's been annoying to see the ridiculous placements he gets on RedsZone polls, etc. But there's no reason to debate it, the player will show the way.

On the other hand, I've not been particularly high on Stubbs -- yet I've been excited to see him do well his first two days in the big leagues and, at least initially, he looks like he belongs.

People can bash these kids if they want, but at the end we will be suprised how well some do and grossly disappointed in others.

Bashing of players is par for the course on these forums. Ignore it. The only opinion that matters is the collective opinion of the decision makers on the team.

[Bumstead]

Seems like frustration as opposed to bashing...maybe frustration is bashing in your dictionary, but not mine. Francisco would be the Reds #1 prospect if he showed the ability to recognize pitches out of the strike zone with consistency. That's a fact. He has tremendous power and has put up pretty good numbers despite that 'flaw' if you will. He still has the potential to be a really good MLB player and I for one hope he develops into one.

Bum

[Kc61]

Seems like frustration as opposed to bashing...maybe frustration is bashing in your dictionary, but not mine. Francisco would be the Reds #1 prospect if he showed the ability to recognize pitches out of the strike zone with consistency. That's a fact. He has tremendous power and has put up pretty good numbers despite that 'flaw' if you will. He still has the potential to be a really good MLB player and I for one hope he develops into one.

Bum

Francisco has a 1.429 OPS at AAA at age 22. I can sure understand the "frustration."

[dougdirt]

This is the one that came across as bashing. And doug can wriggle around it all he wants, but the way he wrote that makes his point pretty obvious. Considering it came in the same game when he had two hits, including a HR, it just stinks of an agenda.

I don't see that as bashing. I was voicing a weakness that he hadn't make any improvements on.

In that same thread I had this to say about Francisco

Juan Francisco just hit an opposite field LD HR. Please baseball Gods let this kid understand he doesn't have to swing at everything.

This was from the day before

Francisco with an opposite field shot. That one looked gone off the bat. The kid has some power.

This is from the thread where Francisco was called up to the Bats

Holding his own? Sure. Looking good going forward? Questionable. I do really like what he has done over his last 250 PA or so with his under 4 to 1 K/BB rate over that time. I would really like it if he kept improving it though because its just much easier to produce at a high level when you are sporting a good ratio.

Certainly guys can be successful in different ways. Like I have said before, Francisco has something you can't teach. The issue has always been what you can teach, the plate discipline, has always been twice as bad as terrible for him. Lately it has gotten into the acceptable range. Thats a good start, but its a pretty small sample size and he has never shown it before. Lets hope he not only continues to perform at his current rate, but continues to improve his K/BB.

I think I have been pretty fair with Francisco. I don't believe that I have once 'bashed him'. I believe I have been honest in my assessment of him.

[Bumstead]

Francisco has a 1.429 OPS at AAA at age 22. I can sure understand the "frustration."

thanks...I stand corrected...21 AB's....I was more referring to the entire season or his entire minor league career...the sarcasm helps in these discussions though. I guess the intellectual/civil part of the discussion is over now. I will stand down and just watch what happens. As I have said multiple times, he has tons of potential and a little plate discipline is all he needs.

Have fun.

Bum

[Kc61]

thanks...I stand corrected...21 AB's....I was more referring to the entire season or his entire minor league career...the sarcasm helps in these discussions though. I guess the intellectual/civil part of the discussion is over now. I will stand down and just watch what happens. As I have said multiple times, he has tons of potential and a little plate discipline is all he needs.

Have fun.

Bum

It was sarcastic, but I thought it was civil.

Funny part of the whole discussion is that Francisco made over 30 errors at 3B at AA. Now that's an area worth watching closely.

McCoy suggested today that Rolen is blocking Francisco at third base. I don't quite see that. Hard to see Cisco at third in the major leagues real soon with all those errors.

[dougdirt]

Funny part of the whole discussion is that Francisco made over 30 errors at 3B at AA. Now that's an area worth watching closely.

McCoy suggested today that Rolen is blocking Francisco at third base. I don't quite see that. Hard to see Cisco at third in the major leagues real soon with all those errors.

I think the errors are a bit of a result of the field in Carolina. Both he and Cozart have just about doubled their error total from the year before. Weird that it would work out like that. I have heard some bad things about the field conditions there as well. Francisco is not great shakes over at 3B, but I don't think he is 35 error bad either.

[Kc61]

I think the errors are a bit of a result of the field in Carolina. Both he and Cozart have just about doubled their error total from the year before. Weird that it would work out like that. I have heard some bad things about the field conditions there as well. Francisco is not great shakes over at 3B, but I don't think he is 35 error bad either.

After EE, I don't have the stomach for a high error third baseman.

If he continues to hit this well, they either have to trade Cisco to the AL or move him to LF. ( I think we have enough lefty first basemen floating around.)