So how did Stubbs look out there?

[princeton]

Drew's hoping for a Pirates-only platoon

[jojo]

I really think this CF debate is way overblown. So long as the team acknowledges that Taveras is not the answer, they will be young and unproven in CF -- whether that means Stubbs, Dickerson or Heisey. None of the 3 looks like he's head and shoulders above the other two -- and all appear to have enough skills to emerge as a viable everyday guy.

So long as they keep at least 2 of them around in 2010, I think next year will go a long way to helping the team make the right long term decision in CF. I'd probably keep Stubbs in CF so long as his head is above water offensively, and move Dickerson or Heisey around as the 4th OF. If one of those two guys -- or even Stubbs -- can be packaged in a a trade for a significant piece, the team can afford to do that. If they can't, you can open 2010 with Heisey back in AAA, poised to move up if needed.

Going into the off season, the Reds are not devoid of options for their outfield internally, via the market or via trade. It's a problem that should be able to get fixed.

[lollipopcurve]

Going into the off season, the Reds are not devoid of options for their outfield internally, via the market or via trade. It's a problem that should be able to get fixed.

It isn't a problem that needs "fixing." (Whereas I would say they do need to do something at SS and/or LF -- and possibly catcher). They've got a bunch of internal CF options that they can evaluate in 2010. At this juncture, the organization should not feel the need to go outside -- whether through trade or free agency -- to find a CF. If something falls into their lap, sure, but that's unlikely to happen. Minimum salary guys with decent ceilings make sense for the team right now, and CF is a place where they have that ready for audition without having to worry if the defense will play.

[jojo]

It isn't a problem that needs "fixing." They've got a bunch of internal options that they can evaluate in 2010. At this juncture, the organization should not feel the need to go outside -- whether through trade or free agency -- to find a CF. If something falls into their lap, sure, but that's unlikely to happen. Minimum salary guys with decent ceilings make sense for the team right now, and CF is a place where they have that ready for audition without having to worry if the defense will play.

I'd prefer they stay internal for LF next season for the purposes of evaluation and sign a guy short term like Cameron in center.

[lollipopcurve]

I'd prefer they stay internal for LF next season for the purposes of evaluation and sign a guy short term like Cameron in center.

What do you do with Stubbs? Not enough info on him yet to exile him from CF and into a platoon, all for the chance to spend millions on an aging guy like Cameron. I like Cameron, but unless he's willing to go to LF for not a ton of $$$, and likely just 1 year, I wouldn't invest in him.

Who are you evaluating in LF? Gomes-Dickerson-Heisey? I could see that, but they should seriously consider upgrading the offense at SS and/or C if that's the way they go.

[jojo]

What do you do with Stubbs? Not enough info on him yet to exile him from CF and into a platoon, all for the chance to spend millions on an aging guy like Cameron. I like Cameron, but unless he's willing to go to LF for not a ton of $$$, and likely just 1 year, I wouldn't invest in him.

Who are you evaluating in LF? Gomes-Dickerson-Heisey? I could see that, but they should seriously consider upgrading the offense at SS and/or C if that's the way they go.

Dickerson/Stubbs/Heisey can be evaluated in left field and where ever as needed.

The big question with Stubbs is his bat so it dosen't matter where he plays to get PAs.

I'd just prefer an approach that I feel lets the Reds evaluate while also upgrading. The above scenario seems to fit the bill. Cameron is coming off of a contract in which he signed for 1yr/$7M plus an option year. I don't think he'll get a dramatically different contract this go around but who knows?

[TRF]

Here is my issue with Stubbs bat. After Dayton he was never good at any level when he spent any significant time there. That is not what I expect from a top 10 pick. I get that top 10 picks wash out, struggle etc.

But it'd be nice to see one Reds 1st rounder succeed. so far this decade it's no one and counting.

[lollipopcurve]

The big question with Stubbs is his bat so it dosen't matter where he plays to get PAs.

Agreed that the ? is the bat, but the ramification is that he should stay in CF, where the defensive value is maximized (and opp cost on offense is minimized).

[RedEye]

Here is my issue with Stubbs bat. After Dayton he was never good at any level when he spent any significant time there. That is not what I expect from a top 10 pick. I get that top 10 picks wash out, struggle etc.

But it'd be nice to see one Reds 1st rounder succeed. so far this decade it's no one and counting.

I agree wholeheartedly that it would be nice to see more Reds first rounders succeed. I just think that the anti-Stubbs faction on this board has been a bit hard on the one recent pick who actually has enjoyed some measure of success. If Stubbs turns into a decent everyday CF for the Reds, or even a solid 4th OF, he'll be a good return on their investment.

If you could guarantee me that the team would get a decent ML contributor like Stubbs with every first pick they make, I think I'd have to take that deal. He looks like he's part of the solution, not more of the problem.

[Highlifeman21]

The Reds have a lack of talent at plenty of positions and haven't been able to fill them or even remotely address them in-house, so they sure as heck better either sign some FAs or make some trades to provide an influx of talent to the roster.

Right now, I'd say 1B, 2B and 3B are the only positions that need not touched (although we'll need a caddy for Rolen @ 3B).

If we can find a competent guy to pair with Hanigan, then we're ok there, but no reason not to look for a talent upgrade externally.

Given our offense sucks something fierce, Janish just isn't a viable option @ SS. If we somehow add a big everyday bat in LF and CF or C, and Bruce returns to his 2008 form, then Janish is more stomachable.

Regardless, we need at least 2 big bats for this offense, which is all contingent on Bruce remembering how to play baseball, us finding someone to platoon with Gomes, and a bat for either CF or C.

Bottomline, add some talent to this roster, b/c boy does it need some.

[Scrap Irony]

Agreed.

[RedEye]

Bottom line, add some talent to this roster, b/c boy does it need some.

Have to agree with that statement. Also agree with everyone else who has been advocating some form of a Heisey/Stubbs/Dickerson/Balentien quartet in CF/LF in 2010. Those guys can battle for those two spots--we'll see what the best combo is out there. That way, the Reds can concentrate on using any available funds to address the SS position, add a platoon-mate for Hanigan, and perhaps add a starter.

[IslandRed]

Agreed that the ? is the bat, but the ramification is that he should stay in CF, where the defensive value is maximized (and opp cost on offense is minimized).

100% agree. He is a pure and tremendous center fielder, and that's where he belongs. If the bat isn't quite ready to hold down the job full-time, I'd let him get more at-bats in Louisville and apply what he's learned from his time up here. Left field? Square peg, round hole.

[Chip R]

We're going to close this thread because we feel it and the Dunn thread are stifling discussion. I don't think there are any points that haven't been made in this discussion.