So how did Stubbs look out there?

[RedEye]

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing the bat with Stubbs. He has a short-armed swing -- doesn't extend his arms. That's why the power is so limited. You see he has it when he's out in front and his arms are extended, but when he hits the ball deeper in the zone, he's not generating any power. I don't know. I hope he proves me wrong, but I think he's going to come up short with the bat.

If he continues to get on base at a reasonable clip, he'll be useful no matter how his power turns out. I still think he could eventually develop 15-20 HR power as he eases into the ML game, even with that swing, but we'll see.

[osuceltic]

If he continues to get on base at a reasonable clip, he'll be useful no matter how his power turns out. I still think he could eventually develop 15-20 HR power as he eases into the ML game, even with that swing, but we'll see.

I'm just saying that's a big "if" at this point. If you can't hit for power and you also struggle to make contact, like Stubbs, that's a tough combination to overcome. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong. I'm rooting hard for the guy -- I love the way he plays CF.

[RedEye]

I'm just saying that's a big "if" at this point. If you can't hit for power and you also struggle to make contact, like Stubbs, that's a tough combination to overcome. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong. I'm rooting hard for the guy -- I love the way he plays CF.

I agree. And, in the spirit of my original thread title, you are exactly right. What we see of Stubbs right now is a great-fielding, good-speed OF who knows how to take a walk and has a serious lack of power. That is, he's been as advertised so far.

[11larkin11]

I'm just saying that's a big "if" at this point. If you can't hit for power and you also struggle to make contact, like Stubbs, that's a tough combination to overcome. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong. I'm rooting hard for the guy -- I love the way he plays CF.

Dude has 3 hits, all XBH.

[11larkin11]

BTW, don't know if this has been mentioned, but on milb.com Stubbs is featured on their "Movin On Up" feature on their homepage, but the picture is of Sutton, not Stubbs

[GAC]

I wanna see how much Baker plays Stubbs and gives him ABs for the remainder of the season.

Baker just doesn't get it at all. He'll say "I gotta give everybody playing time to keep them fresh."

[Heath]

Could Stubbs project to be an Aaron Rowand-type?

[RedEye]

Could Stubbs project to be an Aaron Rowand-type?

I was under the impression that Stubbs was a much better fielder than Rowand... but I could be wrong. Offensively, I think Rowand struggles somewhat with OBP, but he did have a good power-speed combo, at least in his prime. I think the Mike Cameron comp, although hackneyed, might be more appropriate.

[RedEye]

Could Stubbs project to be an Aaron Rowand-type?

A player I've often thought might be comparable is Steve Finley. As a young player, Finley was all over the field with good speed and great defense. His power didn't develop until much later.

[traderumor]

A player I've often thought might be comparable is Steve Finley. As a young player, Finley was all over the field with good speed and great defense. His power didn't develop until much later.

Hmmm, wonder why that was

[RedEye]

Hmmm, wonder why that was

Yeah, I've heard those accusations about Finley, too. I hope it isn't true. He was also a useful player without the power though... and one that might be a realistic comp for Stubbs IMO.

[WMR]

It's early, but Stubbs's reputation on defense certainly seems legit. That was a nice catch last night. Not spectacular, but the kind of play that gives Dickerson problems. Stubbs covers a lot of ground and does it smoothly -- in control and ready to make a play when he gets where he's going. Even on ground balls, he gets to it quickly and fields it in position to make a throw. Little things. Anyway, I love good defense, especially in CF, at SS and at C. I can watch great defenders at those positions all day long.

Stubbs might be a great defender. We don't have great defenders at SS or C. Gonzo was very good, and Janish is pretty good himself, but neither is elite (Gonzo may have been once). I think the difference is pretty noticeable when a guy is legitimately great. Again, it's early, but I think the difference between Stubbs and Dickerson defensively is at least as great as the difference between Dickerson and Taveras (which speaks volumes about Taveras).

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing the bat with Stubbs. He has a short-armed swing -- doesn't extend his arms. That's why the power is so limited. You see he has it when he's out in front and his arms are extended, but when he hits the ball deeper in the zone, he's not generating any power. I don't know. I hope he proves me wrong, but I think he's going to come up short with the bat.

Gonzalez hasn't been a 'very good' defender for a couple years now. He's solid as long as the ball is hit within a couple feet of him.

[osuceltic]

Gonzalez hasn't been a 'very good' defender for a couple years now. He's solid as long as the ball is hit within a couple feet of him.

Typical RedsZone hyperbole. His range isn't outstanding, but there's so much more to the position than that. Gonzo is great around second base, making the turn on the double play. He's good at feeding the second baseman when starting the double play. He's a good cutoff man. Handles plays to his left or right well (granted, without tremendous range). Reliable arm, which eliminates those two-base errors.

There's just so much more to that position than you're seeing.

[westofyou]

Typical RedsZone hyperbole. His range isn't outstanding, but there's so much more to the position than that. Gonzo is great around second base, making the turn on the double play. He's good at feeding the second baseman when starting the double play. He's a good cutoff man. Handles plays to his left or right well (granted, without tremendous range). Reliable arm, which eliminates those two-base errors.

There's just so much more to that position than you're seeing.

Yep, SS is a mystical position that eludes most of the eyes in the stadium, except the guys in the dugout. AG may have lost range (who doesn't as they age?) but he's hardly a piece of dead meat in the field.

Hence why he's now playing in the Fens.

[edabbs44]

Typical RedsZone hyperbole. His range isn't outstanding, but there's so much more to the position than that. Gonzo is great around second base, making the turn on the double play. He's good at feeding the second baseman when starting the double play. He's a good cutoff man. Handles plays to his left or right well (granted, without tremendous range). Reliable arm, which eliminates those two-base errors.

There's just so much more to that position than you're seeing.

Great points here. Stats are good but don't show everything. Here's a perfect example from this weekend:

Helton safe at home thanks to Garko's cutoff decision
The Denver Post
Posted: 08/24/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT


Todd Helton ran through a stop sign in the sixth inning as if the police were chasing him. He appeared to be dead at the plate when the Giants' Nate Schierholtz delivered a rocket from right field. Inexplicably, first baseman Ryan Garko cut off the throw, leaving Helton to beat the relay for the Rockies' first run as catcher Bengie Molina raised his arms in disbelief. "(Garko) knows he made a bad decision. I talked to him," Giants manager Bruce Bochy said.