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Thread: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

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    Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto..._HalMcCoy_Reds

    ‘Fast track’ might not include Dayton stop
    By Marc Katz, Staff Writer 1:11 AM Thursday, August 20, 2009

    Just wondering what the fast track looks like when uttered by someone connected with the Reds.

    After pitchers Mike Leake (Arizona State) and Brad Boxberger (USC) signed the other day from the first round of this summer’s draft, Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty immediately put them on the “fast track” to the major leagues.

    The implication was these two will skip over the Class A Dayton Dragons and pitch higher in the organization next year.

    Of course, just a week ago, Reds minor league pitching coordinator Mack Jenkins expressed hope Leake and Boxberger would sign in enough time to each pitch at least a game here as the Dragons try to make the playoffs, but maybe that was just wishful thinking on his part.

    Farm director Terry Reynolds confirmed Wednesday it was doubtful either would pitch before the fall instructional league.

    As for moving quickly through the organization, the Reds have been a little slow-footed compared to some other organizations.

    Just one of their draft picks, Drew Stubbs, have reached the majors leagues from the 2006-2009 drafts, while four have made it from 2005 (Jay Bruce, Jeff Stevens with the Cubs, Carlos Fisher and Adam Rosales) and three from 2004 (Homer Bailey, Craig Tatum and Paul Janish).

    Fast track? Thirteen first-round draft picks from 2006 are already in the majors and at least six have already made it from 2007.

    There was a time when almost automatically the No. 1 pick by the Reds played in Dayton. When the Dragons began play in 2000, Austin Kearns, the No. 1 pick in 1998, was on the team, as well as pitcher Ty Howington, the No. 1 pick from 1999.

    All but three No. 1 picks since (not including Leake) have played with the Dragons. The only ones missing were pitcher Jeremy Sowers, No. 1 in 2001 who did not sign, pitcher Ryan Wagner in 2003 who started his pro career in Class AA and last year’s No. 1, first baseman Yonder Alonso, who signed too late to join the Dragons.

    Boxberger, a supplemental first-round pick (43rd overall), is the son of Rod Boxberger, who was the most valuable player for National Championship-winning USC in 1978. Rod was selected No. 11 overall by Houston that year, but never made it higher than Class AA in six years.

    The elder Boxberger was 30-55 overall with the Astros, Yankees and Angels organizations. He recorded a 4.67 ERA and had control problems, walking 504 in 702 innings while striking out 389. He also threw 53 wild pitches.

    How about this, though. Rod Boxberger started his minor league career in the Florida State League with Daytona. What if his son started his minor league career in a city that sounds something like that?
    For some reason these stories never really get old when we all know they should.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    I agree with him in this case. The Reds have one of the premier minor league franchises in baseball, 1 hour from Cincy. Part of being a good parent program is making sure that you take care of your crown jewel franchise.

    Every top pick should spend a month in Dayton. First of all, it's a joy to play there, and it won't set any body back. Let's say they decide Leake could start at AA next season.

    So they have him do April in Dayton, 2 weeks in Sarasota (or where ever) and then on to Carolina. Keeps Dayton franchise happy, gives Dayton fans a chance to see the top pick.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    If every pick spent a month there Katz would just write a story how those guys only spend 1 month there. At some point you have to understand that its low A ball. Good talent is going to blow past that and same can be said for Sarasota. Guys dont tend to spend tons of time in either of those spots if they are top talents.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    All but three No. 1 picks since (not including Leake) have played with the Dragons. The only ones missing were pitcher Jeremy Sowers, No. 1 in 2001 who did not sign, pitcher Ryan Wagner in 2003 who started his pro career in Class AA and last year’s No. 1, first baseman Yonder Alonso, who signed too late to join the Dragons.
    So what the heck is he complaining about?

    Six of the eight best players in the system of the last half decade will have spent significant time in Dayton after next year, between Bruce, Frazier, Cueto, Bailey, Votto, and Rodriguez. The only one that didn't is Yonder Alonso, and now Mike Leake.

    As long as the Reds continue to draft polished college guys in the first round, they're not going to play in Dayton- especially if they wait until the deadline to sign. When the Reds start taking high schoolers again in the first two rounds (like they did with Kearns, Dunn, Bailey, Howington, Lotzkar, Mesoraco, etc.) they will play in Dayton.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    "So what the heck is he complaining about?"

    You answered your own question...... "As long as the Reds continue to draft polished college guys in the first round, they're not going to play in Dayton"


    And they should. Spend 1 month there, and if they are playing well, promote them. It should be part of your obligation to Dayton.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Really, the question should be, what is best for each kid's development. It would have been great if Leake would have signed a month ago, spent some time in the GCL and developmental league showing he was ready for a full go on his minor league career, then hit Dayton for the end of the season, but the trend is certainly pointing towards more top end college players to wait as long as possible to sign. Aside from getting some spot action here or there w/ either the GCL reds or the High A club where Brox and Leake can be watched closer from the team's headquarters down in FL, neither should be throwing much this season.

    So what is best for them? Alonso showed he was more than ready for High A ball, so sending him to Low A dayton would have been a waste of his time. I pray that Leake is at the same point or further next year where facing low A talent is a waste of his time such that he's not being challenged. Hopefully the same for Brox.

    I wonder if he'll complain next year when Yorman shows up for a full season of minor league ball, perhaps Duran and/or Hamilton? I wonder how much of this is being feed down from the ownership of the Dragons? After having several seasons of "name" talent, or at least as "name" talent as you'd expect to get in Low A, perhaps they've grown weary of not having a household name to sell to their ticket holders. W/ GM and NCR pulling out, I wonder if there's any threat of not selling out next year? Is the season ticket base drowning out in the current economy and they want someone they can sell, rather than a handful of 4th & 5th round picks they hope can make the show one day, but no body has a real good feeling about currently as they await to see if that middle round pick putting up solid numbers is the next Chris Heisey or hopefully even an Albert Pujols, or is he just the next kid that's going to flame out before he crosses AA ball and quickly forgotten?

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    "So what the heck is he complaining about?"

    You answered your own question...... "As long as the Reds continue to draft polished college guys in the first round, they're not going to play in Dayton"


    And they should. Spend 1 month there, and if they are playing well, promote them. It should be part of your obligation to Dayton.
    If they don't sign until mid-late August, it's not possible.

    If they signed before then, I think they would.

    There is no point in starting Leake in Dayton next year. The goal is for him to help the big club as soon as he can, and starting him in Dayton will impede that.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Spending a month in Dayton does nothing to impede a prospects development.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    What is the Reds' obligation to Dayton?!? And how is Dayton a crown jewel?!?

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    And how is Dayton a crown jewel?!?
    Are you serious?

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Yes, please explain what makes Dayton so special that the Reds should cater to the wants of a Low-A club instead of developing players the way they think is best.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Katz is annoyed

    zone is annoyed that Katz is annoyed

    princeton is annoyed that zone is annoyed that Katz is annoyed.

    rinse and repeat.
    2015, baby!

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    One of my first posts on Redszone was a complaint that the Reds moved prospects through the system more slowly than other franchises. Since then, I have changed my mind. I actually like the slow track. Get all the learning you can out of the minors. Don't skip AAA, there are ex-ML players there that know things. Spare me a tortuously long ML learning curve that nonetheless moves the player closer to arbitration and free agency.

    As for where a player starts, err on the conservative side. He can always be given a quick promotion if he overpowers the competition. Build confidence as well as skills.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Yes, please explain what makes Dayton so special that the Reds should cater to the wants of a Low-A club instead of developing players the way they think is best.
    It isn't about catering to their "wants", the Dayton franchise sells out every game, and has a fantastic facility. They are 1 hour from GABP, so there is crossover between the fans. Having young prospects spending some time in Dayton helps build fan interest. I know where Katz is coming from, but I think he is off base here.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: Marc Katz: Stories of lol

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Spending a month in Dayton does nothing to impede a prospects development.
    Perhaps, but does it do anything to help them if they're clearly beyond low A skill wise?

    Really, Alonso is the only case we have to talk about when it comes to the Dragons/Reds relationship and 1st round draft picks. Kearns to Dayton, Howington, Grueler to Dayton, Stubbs, Mes to Dayton, Alonso skips.

    Alonst started late due to his late signing. He showed in High A that he was clearly ready from a skill set to play that level. Heck there were some that thought he should have started the season in AA, would playing a month in Dayton have helped him all that much? Would it have helped him to OPS at 1.000+ while facing guys that struggle to find the zone or don't have the stuff that you'll see in High A and AA. He was an elite 20/21 year old college kid. Had he been drafted as an elite prospect out of high school at 18, we would have expected him to spend his age 19 season in Dayton, age 20 in High A, and then would have spent the start of this season at AA, so if anything the Reds were being a bit cautious w/ Alonso, keeping him near the minor league base in Sarasota to watch and coach him thru the first month or so of the season before sending him up to AA prior to the injury.

    I would expect the same next season out of Leake and possible Brox assuming the reds move their High A affiliate to Arizona. Put both in High A to monitor closely and get all the roving instructors, extended spring training instructors, High A coaches to observe them and develop the best approach to developing them, then moving them up to AA when they're ready, hopefully about late May/early June.


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