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Thread: Reds to lose $15M this year?

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Reds to lose $15M this year?

    According to a source from Hal, thats what it looks like

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs...rand_plan.html
    So what is “The Grand Plan?”

    By Hal McCoy | Thursday, August 20, 2009, 02:30 PM

    Nearly every day WLW, the Cincinnati Reds flagship station, plays a sound bite from CEO Bob Castellini in which he says, “We’re just not going to lose any more.”

    That sound bite comes from two years ago and was an answer to a question I posed on the day general manager Wayne Krivskhy was fired early in the 2008 season.

    The question was, “When are the Reds going to consider some stability in the general manager’s office and in the manager’s chair.”

    Castellini wasn’t happy with my question and snapped out the answer, “We just aren’t going to lose any more.”

    How is that working so far? As today’s game unfolded, the Reds were 19 games under .500 and the only team below them in the NL Central is the Pittsburgh Pirates.

    And that’s all the Reds have left to play for this season - staying out of last place. The Reds and the Pirates play 13 times the rest of the season, beginning tomorrow night in Pittsburgh.

    The theme: The Battle for the Bottom.

    Since the Reds last had a winning season in 2000 and the manager was Jack McKeon and the general manager was Jim Bowden, the team has been managed by Bob Boone, Dave Miley, Jerry Narron, Pete Mackanin (interim) and Dusty Baker.

    The GMs have been Jim Bowden, Dan O’Brien, Wayne Krivsky and Walt Jocketty.

    Since McKeon and Bowden left, the theme has been rebuilding through the minor-league system. That’s the stated theme, The Grand Plan.

    Well, it has been nine years of losing now and how is that working? The old Brooklyn Dodgers had a chant every year when they were eliminated, “Wait ‘til next year.” With the Reds, it is more like, “Wait until the next decade,” and even that doesn’t work.

    The Reds and Jocketty keep saying they have a plan and that plan is the same plan they’ve told fans over and over, “We’re building from within.” They never saw how long that plan will take. Probably won’t happen in my lifetime.

    What bothers me is the trade for Scott Rolen - a great guy, a great player. But he is 35 and injury-prone and has played only four games since the July 31 trade. To get him, the Reds gave up two young pitching prospects, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart.

    Is that building from within? Jocketty says he hopes Rolen sticks around for three or four years.

    Why would that be? One of the Reds’ top prospects is third baseman Juan Francisco, who was recently promoted to Class AAA Louisville. He isn’t far away and one wonders, “If Rolen is around, where will Francisco play?”

    Hopefully, somebody with the Reds is watching and studying what the Florida Marlins do. The Marlins spent about $90 million before the 1997 season on free agents and bought themselves a World Series trophy.

    After that season, the Marlins got rid of most of their high-priced players and began building from within. And with one of baseball’s lowest payrolls, they won another World Series.

    And they keep doing it. Low payroll, high return. They compete every year with one of baseball’s lowest payrolls, doing it mostly with homegrown talent. They are in the hunt against this year, in second place in the NL East, chasing the Phillies.

    Why can’t the Reds do it? They could. Easily. If they’d only stick with the plan instead of constantly veering off course to sign players like Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras and trading for a player like Rolen, who will hinder the advancement of Francisco, unless they move him to left field. Then what are they going to do with shortstop-third baseman-left fielder- second baseman Todd Frazier?

    Krivsky did a lot of good things in his short time with the Reds, especially in the development department. Krivsky, a long-time development guy with the Minnesota Twins - another team that does it right - was perfect for the Reds “Grand Plan.”

    But Castellini became impatient and wanted Jocketty in the GM’s chair. Castellini was a minority owner with the St. Louis Cardinals when Jocketty was GM there.

    Yes, the Cardinals were, and are, successful. But they aren’t a developmental team. They spend money. They sign free agents and they make trades for established players.

    Perhaps Krivsky’s only curious move was to sign closer Francisco Cordero to a $47 million contract. A team building for the future doesn’t need an expensive closer.

    Now he is an albatross on a team that doesn’t win enough to need an established closer. That’s a job that should be handled on the Reds by a young, inexpensive talent - Josh Roenicke was one. Jared Burton could be one. Nick Masset could be one.

    If they can, the Reds should trade Cordero - the Phillies and Cubs could use a closer and have the cash to do it. That would save the Reds $25 milion over the next two years and make room for more young pitchers to develop.

    I’m still scratching my head over why the Reds spent $10 million last off-season to buy a new HD scoreboard. It’s a nice trinket, but what was wrong with the old scoreboard?

    You have to have fans in the park to see that scoreboard. The Reds were counting on 2 to 2.5 million fans this year but are headed closer to 1.5 to 1.7 million and there are indications the team will lose close to $15 million this year, according to a person close to the inner workings.

    I don’t profess to be as knowledgeable as a club owner or a GM or a scout, but I do think that coming up with a plan and sticking with it would be beneficial.

    And then prove to the fans that there is a plan that won’t take another decade to produce a consistent contender - like the Marlins or the Twins or the Tampa Bay Rays.

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    I love the new hal.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Hopefully they'll lose 30 million next year if the product on the field isn't any better.

    (Not that I believe they've lost money. The increasing valuation of the franchise alone puts them WAY into the black. More excuse-mongering and loser-speak from the Reds, nothing to see here.)
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    What bothers me is the trade for Scott Rolen - a great guy, a great player. But he is 35 and injury-prone and has played only four games since the July 31 trade.
    Regardless of one's opinion on the trade, this is as ludicrous a comment when Hal says it as it is when someone posts it on here. His playing only 4 games is from getting plunked in the head, which this beaning seems to have amazingly affected other people's ability to use logic.

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Hal is going out with a BANG! I agree with almost everything he said. The Krivs firing never made sense unless you were going to spend big. Walt has proven to me that he can't think like a small market GM. Go get a Minnesota Twins/Florida Marlins guy to teach him how to do it.
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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I’m still scratching my head over why the Reds spent $10 million last off-season to buy a new HD scoreboard. It’s a nice trinket, but what was wrong with the old scoreboard?
    How about because MULTIPLE officials from the club have talked about how the old scoreboard was constantly having issues and in danger of simply shutting down for good? That is, of course, unless you want to believe they're all lying about that and they were just dying to spend $10 million on a new scoreboard and spend the entire winter installing it and learning new equipment.

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    Hal is going out with a BANG! I agree with almost everything he said. The Krivs firing never made sense unless you were going to spend big. Walt has proven to me that he can't think like a small market GM. Go get a Minnesota Twins/Florida Marlins guy to teach him how to do it.
    Get the real thing from the Twins (Ryan), not a knock-off.

    Of course, there's no way Ryan comes out of retirement.

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    I love the new hal.
    x 2.

    He just summarized what RedsZone has been saying for years. I hope somebody's listening.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    I'm not sure the scoreboard point is fair. This was a major capital expenditure and was probably planned months/years in advance. It wasn't likely an impulse purchase.

    I think there are plenty of big problems to hone in on with the current regime without resorting to potshots.

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Except Hal's dead wrong about Rolen "blocking" all that talent in the minors. Talk about ignoring facts to make a gossamer-thin jab.

    The real trouble with this team is not that they have Gomes or Rolen; it's that they have no one internally to replace them.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Not that I believe they've lost money. The increasing valuation of the franchise alone puts them WAY into the black. More excuse-mongering and loser-speak from the Reds, nothing to see here.
    That is not cash flow. The life blood of a company is its cash flow.

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Except Hal's dead wrong about Rolen "blocking" all that talent in the minors. Talk about ignoring facts to make a gossamer-thin jab.

    The real trouble with this team is not that they have Gomes or Rolen; it's that they have no one internally to replace them.
    That's true also, although I think it's not hard to make the argument that both Stewart and Roenicke could've helped.

    That said, I've been crooning about the lack of premium talent in the minors for a while now. Chris Buckley should be demoted to Day 2 of the draft. He's great at plucking role players in the mid to later rounds, but they should bring in someone else who understands how to consistently bring in premium talent on Day 1.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    That is not cash flow. The life blood of a company is its cash flow.
    Not a professional sports franchise, no sir.

    Talk to anyone familiar with the financial side of the industry. Talk to Steve Greenberg, or any of the sports bankers over at Allen and Co. Valuations are all that really matter.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I'm not sure the scoreboard point is fair. This was a major capital expenditure and was probably planned months/years in advance. It wasn't likely an impulse purchase.

    I think there are plenty of big problems to hone in on with the current regime without resorting to potshots.
    My understanding (from the Enquirer, so it's not like I have some special insider knowledge) was that the scoreboard manufacturer had gone out of business and they couldn't get spare parts to keep it running. They could have gone cheaper probably, but you've got to give fans SOMETHING nice to look at when they show up.

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to lose $15M this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
    How about because MULTIPLE officials from the club have talked about how the old scoreboard was constantly having issues and in danger of simply shutting down for good? That is, of course, unless you want to believe they're all lying about that and they were just dying to spend $10 million on a new scoreboard and spend the entire winter installing it and learning new equipment.
    If true, that just begs the question why a six-year-old scoreboard was heading for the trash bin. When pieces of a stadium that just opened in 2003 start falling apart, it makes me scratch my head.

    Was it Lindner just being who he is (a cheap [insert favorite adjective here]) and opting to go with something low quality?

    Was it somebody in the Reds' organization being awful at their job during construction (hey, this equipment stinks but let's buy it and install it anyway!)?

    Either way, both of those would totally be a Reds' thing to do.
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