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Thread: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

  1. #61
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS View Post
    So you expect the Tigers to trade away who was at LEAST once a promising pticher, for two guys who have no hope whatsoever of adding anything to the team, for a small amount of salary relief? Another classic RedZone crazy idea. When will people get that Taveras has NEGATIVE trade value. There's a better chance of the Reds just paying the difference between Taveras salary and Robertson's salary next year without putting Taveras in the deal and making that trade than including him. In other words, NOT HAPPENING.
    Of course there would be a better chance if the reds paid more. Duh!!! Why should they? The Tigers have a minor leaguer locked-up for a guaranteed $10 Million in 2010. Talk about negative trade value. The Tigers make a deal like this and save a couple Million, then maybe they can deal Lincoln at some point and save some more. DFA Taveras and the hit becomes much smaller than a DFA of Robertson. The Tigers may want to keep him as rotation insurance, but teams looking to move a $10 Million per year minor leaguer aren't exactly in a high leverage negotiating position and that player would seem to have as much or more Negative value than even the horrible (and he really is horrible) guy that Taveras is just because of the cost to get rid of him. All the players involved in the trade I proposed have negative value. We just saw how much the Brewers had to eat to move Bill Hall.

    If the Reds had to throw in a middling prospect (say Valaika) I'd do it. With Volquez hurt, the Reds don't have 5 guys I'd want to see in the rotation in 2010. Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, a full season shot for Bailey, ???, ???, ???. Robertson is no beauty either, but for a couple million, I prefer him to Owings, Lehr, Wells and the AAA pretenders. This team dealt away the only guy who may have been worth a look in the Rolen deal and they really don't have the money to lure a free agent. They have to do something somewhat creative to even attempt to fill the hole and its still hoping for lightning in a bottle.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  3. #62
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    Re: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Of course there would be a better chance if the reds paid more. Duh!!! Why should they? The Tigers have a minor leaguer locked-up for a guaranteed $10 Million in 2010. Talk about negative trade value. The Tigers make a deal like this and save a couple Million, then maybe they can deal Lincoln at some point and save some more. DFA Taveras and the hit becomes much smaller than a DFA of Robertson. The Tigers may want to keep him as rotation insurance, but teams looking to move a $10 Million per year minor leaguer aren't exactly in a high leverage negotiating position and that player would seem to have as much or more Negative value than even the horrible (and he really is horrible) guy that Taveras is just because of the cost to get rid of him. All the players involved in the trade I proposed have negative value. We just saw how much the Brewers had to eat to move Bill Hall.

    If the Reds had to throw in a middling prospect (say Valaika) I'd do it. With Volquez hurt, the Reds don't have 5 guys I'd want to see in the rotation in 2010. Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, a full season shot for Bailey, ???, ???, ???. Robertson is no beauty either, but for a couple million, I prefer him to Owings, Lehr, Wells and the AAA pretenders. This team dealt away the only guy who may have been worth a look in the Rolen deal and they really don't have the money to lure a free agent. They have to do something somewhat creative to even attempt to fill the hole and its still hoping for lightning in a bottle.
    Also of note is that the Tigers owe Jeremy Bonderman $12.5M and Dontrelle Willis $12.0M for 2010 as well, so I would think the Tigers would be inclined to want to save $6.0M in a swap for Taveras. The Royals would also be a possible match for Taveras (seeing what their GM has acquired in trades and free agency during the past 12 months).

  4. #63
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    Re: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

    So....Nate Robertson, a 31/32 year-old pitcher who has pitched in a pitchers park the last 2 years and produced a 6.50+ ERA in 190IP and allowed 243 hits, 76 walks and 28 HR's is what we want to replace Owings with???? Those numbers in a PITCHER's park....Owings numbers the last two years:

    212 IP
    223 H
    96 W
    1.43 Whip vs. 1.68 Whip for Robertson
    32 HR's
    5.73 ERA combined...
    in a hitter's park...
    26 years old...

    Sorry, I will take Owings twice in 5 days before letting Robertson implode at Great America Ballpark. Just DFA Taveras and move on. Nobody in their right mind is trading for him anyway.

    Bum

  5. #64
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    So....Nate Robertson, a 31/32 year-old pitcher who has pitched in a pitchers park the last 2 years and produced a 6.50+ ERA in 190IP and allowed 243 hits, 76 walks and 28 HR's is what we want to replace Owings with???? Those numbers in a PITCHER's park....Owings numbers the last two years:

    212 IP
    223 H
    96 W
    1.43 Whip vs. 1.68 Whip for Robertson
    32 HR's
    5.73 ERA combined...
    in a hitter's park...
    26 years old...

    Sorry, I will take Owings twice in 5 days before letting Robertson implode at Great America Ballpark. Just DFA Taveras and move on. Nobody in their right mind is trading for him anyway.

    Bum
    Owings is a pretty good PH and makes the Roster work better, but I don't want him standing on the mound with a ball in his hand except in mop-up duty. Robertson was successful for a couple seasons in a way that Owings has never been. A move to the weaker NL with no DH to face should more than make up for the park difference. I'd prefer some one better, but this team has no money to get one and even this deal would depend on the Tigers taking a couple bad contracts back in exchange or eating a bunch of money. Its what this team is down to now I'm afraid.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  6. #65
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    Re: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

    For pitching in a pitcher's park, Robertson was never really all that good. Again, I would take my chances with Owings. He's younger and cheaper and better right now. I think unfortunately, the Reds will now just have to wait for contracts to run out and prospects to mature (or spend $$$$). If they are going to trade for pitching it should be younger pitching IMHO. Wade Davis or Niemann should be available (along with Brignac); what we would trade for them, I have no idea.

    Bum

  7. #66
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    For pitching in a pitcher's park, Robertson was never really all that good. Again, I would take my chances with Owings. He's younger and cheaper and better right now. I think unfortunately, the Reds will now just have to wait for contracts to run out and prospects to mature (or spend $$$$). If they are going to trade for pitching it should be younger pitching IMHO. Wade Davis or Niemann should be available (along with Brignac); what we would trade for them, I have no idea.

    Bum
    I'd prefer that too. The Reds don't have anything to trade for those guys. As for the contracts running out, I get the plan, but with the exception of Bailey (who most no longer consider a prospect) the Reds don't seem to have a pitcher in the organization who projects to be anywhere near as good as Harang and Arroyo are even now. Wood maybe. Maloney, Ramirez and Lecure absolutely not. I was optimistic about Lotzkar and Jordan Smith, but the injuries have soured me. I have some hope for Horst and Klinker, but I'd still be surprised. Daryl Thompson isn't a starter anymore. Sulbaren is far away and a HR machine. Josh Ravin is still far away and it took him 3 years to get out of Rookie ball. Matt Fairel is interesting at least. And who really knows about Mike Leake.

    Its why trading Zach Stewart hurt so much.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #67
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    Re: August 25th Minor League Game Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'd prefer that too. The Reds don't have anything to trade for those guys. As for the contracts running out, I get the plan, but with the exception of Bailey (who most no longer consider a prospect) the Reds don't seem to have a pitcher in the organization who projects to be anywhere near as good as Harang and Arroyo are even now. Wood maybe. Maloney, Ramirez and Lecure absolutely not. I was optimistic about Lotzkar and Jordan Smith, but the injuries have soured me. I have some hope for Horst and Klinker, but I'd still be surprised. Daryl Thompson isn't a starter anymore. Sulbaren is far away and a HR machine. Josh Ravin is still far away and it took him 3 years to get out of Rookie ball. Matt Fairel is interesting at least. And who really knows about Mike Leake.

    Its why trading Zach Stewart hurt so much.
    I agree with you on that.


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