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Thread: Losing Stewart really hurts...

  1. #16
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    He had allowed 1 ER through 7.2 innings before getting roughed up for four runs in 0.2 innings last night. His ERA for the season is still below 2.00 and his GO/FO ratio is still above 2.0.
    Does Toronto want to make him a starter?
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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  3. #17
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Does Toronto want to make him a starter?
    I read an article right after the trade that indicated the Jays plan on using him as a starter next season.

  4. #18
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Does Toronto want to make him a starter?
    Ricciardi has said they are not sure. They're leaning toward putting him as a starter but that, "some people in the organization want him as a reliever."
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #19
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    We should get a RedsZone betting pool going to determine when Stewart's gonna start collecting Cy Young awards.

  6. #20
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    We should get a RedsZone betting pool going to determine when Stewart's gonna start collecting Cy Young awards.
    do you ever get bored?

  7. #21
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    How Zach doing since the trade?

    edit, found it.

    8.1 IP
    14 hits
    4 bb
    6 k
    5.40 earnie
    I had been keeping up with his stats since he was traded, and while someone said he got rocked in his last appearance, I noticed in almost every appearance he gave up at least 2 baserunners (2 hits, walk and a hit, 2 walks, etc) in every appearance. It was only a matter of time until the runs followed. Wake me up when this guy is the legitimate future 2 starter everyone cried about when he was traded. Roenike also has over a 5 ERA at Toronto too I believe, and Edwin has batted under the Mendoza line with nary a walk before he got injured.

    Two things bother me I noticed in this article. Bringing up BABIP, I noticed in another article posted around the trade how a writer wrote about there was another adjusted BABIP statistic that said Rolen wasn't overly fortunate at all when you figure in the way he hits the ball.

    Second is this:

    "The opportunity of cost of where the team could have allocated that payroll to build for the future, as a result, is fairly high."

    Yeah, the writer obviously knows jack crap about the Reds. The opportunity cost of free agency for the Reds equals signing guys like Eric Milton, Mike Stanton, Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras, Bronson Arroyo off a few good starts to a long term expensive deal, and a long term contract to a freaking closer in Francisco Cordero that makes the most money on our friggin team! Yeah, we know exactly where "opportunity cost" goes to for the Reds. I rather burn $11 mil on Rolen than even $5 mil on another crap player like Taveras. Getting Rolen probably saved us from a 3 year $30 mil deal for Juan Pierre.

  8. #22
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS View Post
    Second is this:

    "The opportunity of cost of where the team could have allocated that payroll to build for the future, as a result, is fairly high."

    Yeah, the writer obviously knows jack crap about the Reds. The opportunity cost of free agency for the Reds equals signing guys like Eric Milton, Mike Stanton, Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras, Bronson Arroyo off a few good starts to a long term expensive deal, and a long term contract to a freaking closer in Francisco Cordero that makes the most money on our friggin team! Yeah, we know exactly where "opportunity cost" goes to for the Reds. I rather burn $11 mil on Rolen than even $5 mil on another crap player like Taveras. Getting Rolen probably saved us from a 3 year $30 mil deal for Juan Pierre.
    Sadly true on so many different levels.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  9. #23
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    There was a time when people would have flipped over trading Richie Gardner or Bobby Basham too.

    The Reds got the bird in hand in that deal. The Jays have two in the bush (and the useless carcass of Edwin Encarnacion).
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #24
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    He had allowed 1 ER through 7.2 innings before getting roughed up for four runs in 0.2 innings last night. His ERA for the season is still below 2.00 and his GO/FO ratio is still above 2.0.
    In terms of his performance since Stewart went to the Toronto organization, he has a strikeout/walk ratio of 6.48/4.32 per nine innings. He has a 2.16 WHIP. He has a 5.40 ERA. He has a 2.60 ground ball rate. He has allowed 14 hits in 8.1 innings.

    At Louisville, he had a much higher strikeout rate (over 11) and a high walk rate of 5.84.

    Stewart was very successful at AA, we won't know how he does at the higher levels for awhile. So far, in limited innings, walks seem to be an issue, but I assume he'll be at AAA next year and there will be a much larger sample to consider. I also wonder if the PCL is harder for pitchers than the International League, it used to be that way.

    I was luke warm on the trade, but having seen Rolen play for the Reds I now favor the trade. I don't believe that you win simply by compiling young kids. I think teams need a mixture of players. The Reds defensive infield is now a strength, for the first time I can remember. And three of the infielders can hit too.

    Now they need to add a good starting player in the outfield to beef up that unit. And another catcher to replace Hernandez and compliment Hanigan. And keep Dickerson and Stubbs in CF.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-02-2009 at 10:16 AM.

  11. #25
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    In terms of his performance since Stewart went to the Toronto organization, he has a strikeout/walk ratio of 6.48/4.32 per nine innings. He has a 2.16 WHIP. He has a 5.40 ERA. He has a 2.60 ground ball rate. He has allowed 14 hits in 8.1 innings.

    At Louisville, he had a much higher strikeout rate (over 11) and a high walk rate of 5.84.

    Stewart was very successful at AA, we won't know how he does at the higher levels for awhile. So far, in limited innings, walks seem to be an issue, but I assume he'll be at AAA next year and there will be a much larger sample to consider. I also wonder if the PCL is harder for pitchers than the International League, it used to be that way.

    I was luke warm on the trade, but having seen Rolen play for the Reds I now favor the trade. I don't believe that you win simply by compiling young kids. I think teams need a mixture of players. The Reds defensive infield is now a strength, for the first time I can remember. And three of the infielders can hit too.

    Now they need to add a good starting player in the outfield to beef up that unit. And another catcher to replace Hernandez and compliment Hanigan. And keep Dickerson and Stubbs in CF.
    The PCL is scoring about .5 more runs per game than the IL over the past five years. Pitchers give up about .05 more home runs per nine innings. So yes, its' definitely rougher on pitchers.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #26
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Have you watched Rolen play for the Reds? Did you see the numbers he came with from Toronto? He may be past his prime, but I'd say he's far from over the hill. Over the hill is Griffey in his last couple years here.
    I've watched his whole career. I've watched his downslide the last 5 years as all players who don't use steroids go through the way he's gone through it. I've watched the "predictable" one-year upswing that happens to all players who don't use steroids go through at the stage of their careers that Rolen is in right now. And, next year I'll watch the dramatic drop in production that all players go through who don't use steroids the year after their "predictable one-year upswing". His numbers next year will be in line with 2006-2008 as though 2009 never happened. Because, that's what all players go through at this stage of their careers who don't use steroids.

  13. #27
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    How Zach doing since the trade?

    edit, found it.

    8.1 IP
    14 hits
    4 bb
    6 k
    5.40 earnie
    He had only given up 1 earned run in his first 7.2 IP before giving up 4 in his last outing.

    Don't mess with statistics or they'll come back to burn you.

  14. #28
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    I've watched his whole career. I've watched his downslide the last 5 years as all players who don't use steroids go through the way he's gone through it. I've watched the "predictable" one-year upswing that happens to all players who don't use steroids go through at the stage of their careers that Rolen is in right now. And, next year I'll watch the dramatic drop in production that all players go through who don't use steroids the year after their "predictable one-year upswing". His numbers next year will be in line with 2006-2008 as though 2009 never happened. Because, that's what all players go through at this stage of their careers who don't use steroids.
    I guess we'll see if you're right.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  15. #29
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Does Toronto want to make him a starter?
    He's past his innings pitched for the season, so his work has to be limited.

  16. #30
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    Re: Losing Stewart really hurts...

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS View Post
    Yeah, the writer obviously knows jack crap about the Reds. The opportunity cost of free agency for the Reds equals signing guys like Eric Milton, Mike Stanton, Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras, Bronson Arroyo off a few good starts to a long term expensive deal, and a long term contract to a freaking closer in Francisco Cordero that makes the most money on our friggin team! Yeah, we know exactly where "opportunity cost" goes to for the Reds. I rather burn $11 mil on Rolen than even $5 mil on another crap player like Taveras. Getting Rolen probably saved us from a 3 year $30 mil deal for Juan Pierre.
    Every sarcasm has it's truth in it. It's what makes it sarcasm. Unfortunately, this has been the truth about the REDS. Misappropriation of funds.


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