Losing Stewart really hurts...

[OnBaseMachine]

In an ESPN chat today Jim Callis ranked Zach Stewart as the top prospect in the Blue Jays system, though he likes Stewart best as a late inning reliever. I guess it depends on what the Jays need the most - a potential #2/3 starter or a closer/setup man.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/onlin...09/268911.html

[fearofpopvol1]

In an ESPN chat today Jim Callis ranked Zach Stewart as the top prospect in the Blue Jays system, though he likes Stewart best as a late inning reliever. I guess it depends on what the Jays need the most - a potential #2/3 starter or a closer/setup man.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/onlin...09/268911.html

is the blue jays system that bad or is stewart that good?

[dougdirt]

is the blue jays system that bad or is stewart that good?

Its not as good as it was coming into the year, but Stewart is pretty good. Remember that BA had him in their midseason Top 60 at one point during discussions before moving him down slightly lower than that.

[mdccclxix]

Kevin Goldstein at BP 11/17/09:

"ElAngelo (New York, NY): What team has the worst "best" prospect?

Kevin Goldstein: I think it's going to be Toronto."

What does that say about Stewart? Nothing? Good, bad? Not sure about Goldstein's "range" on these kind of statements...

[REDblooded]

Kevin Goldstein at BP 11/17/09:

"ElAngelo (New York, NY): What team has the worst "best" prospect?

Kevin Goldstein: I think it's going to be Toronto."

What does that say about Stewart? Nothing? Good, bad? Not sure about Goldstein's "range" on these kind of statements...

Nothing? Do you think Stewart is a top 32 prospect? If not, and he's listed as Toronto's #1, than yeah, that statement is pretty accurate... I would probably slot Stewart somewhere in the 50-70 range, but that's because he's a groundball starter with questions... Those types of arms don't figure into the top 25... Those guys are projected 7.5 k's/9ip type of guys, and that's probably not Stewart on the major league level... However, that's a HORRIBLE way of quantifying Stewart's value to a team like the Reds who 1/2 of their games in GABP.

[redsof72]

The ironic part of all of this of course, is that with all this talk about the Reds needing to trim payroll, and speculation about who they might deal, and some pointing at Phillips or Cordero or Arroyo as players they may have to unload to cut payroll, the most ironic thing is this: If you were told to cut payroll, and you looked at all the guys on the roster and their salaries, and someone told you that you could deal your 34 year old third baseman with back trouble and a nine million dollar salary, in exchange for the best pitching prospect in the Toronto organization, who would then become your best pitching prospect, would you do that? I mean, if you had to cut payroll, wouldn't that be the first trade you would make if you could?

If they trade ANYONE to cut payroll literally months after giving up their best pitching prospect to ADD payroll...oh brother.

[camisadelgolf]

I think all of this hints that either A.) the Reds think Stewart is overrated and/or B.) Stewart is a future reliever. I don't care how good a relief pitching prospect is--I'd trade any relief prospect for Scott Rolen in a heartbeat.

[lollipopcurve]

I think all of this hints that either A.) the Reds think Stewart is overrated and/or B.) Stewart is a future reliever. I don't care how good a relief pitching prospect is--I'd trade any relief prospect for Scott Rolen in a heartbeat.

Exactly. Stewart has a ways to go to prove to me he can be a starter at the major league level. He's never carried a starter's workload for anywhere near a full professional season. So, if he's really a reliever -- which is what most of his training has prepared him to be -- can he be a closer? Not many end up as true shutdown closers.

Right now I don't see any way to project Stewart with certainty as anything but a setup guy. To be more, he's still got to show more.

[redsof72]

I can tell you that the Reds definitely did not think Stewart was overrated. I mean, by all indications, they offered Alonso first and finally caved in at the last minute to give up Stewart.

I saw the looks on the faces of some of the key player development people hours after this trade was made. They did not think Stewart was overrated.

Sorry to those that feel this subject has been beaten to death. You are probably right.

[nate]

The ironic part of all of this of course, is that with all this talk about the Reds needing to trim payroll, and speculation about who they might deal, and some pointing at Phillips or Cordero or Arroyo as players they may have to unload to cut payroll, the most ironic thing is this: If you were told to cut payroll, and you looked at all the guys on the roster and their salaries, and someone told you that you could deal your 34 year old third baseman with back trouble and a nine million dollar salary, in exchange for the best pitching prospect in the Toronto organization, who would then become your best pitching prospect, would you do that? I mean, if you had to cut payroll, wouldn't that be the first trade you would make if you could?

If they trade ANYONE to cut payroll literally months after giving up their best pitching prospect to ADD payroll...oh brother.

Rolen makes $11mm in 2010. EE would've made $4.75 in 2010.

And then the question is, would you deal your 34 year old third baseman who is still one of the best defenders in the league, a veteran role model for your young team, a decent hitter with a history of back problems and his net $6.25mm salary for a good young pitcher who might be a starter or reliever and have the Juan Francisco/Adam Rosales tandem manning 3B?

If I'm just phoning in the season, I might still do that. Not until the trading deadline so I sell at least one ticket.

And the first trade I make if I'm cutting payroll is Willy Taveras to anyone, followed by Mike Lincoln. Fun fact, Willy T is the 6th highest paid player on the Reds and will make more than Dusty in 2010.

If I'm then going into firesale mode, BP because he's likely to return the most valuable followed by Rhodes, Cordero, Arroyo, Harang and Rolen.

[GIDP]

I think the Stewart trade can fall into the category of bad choices made. Even if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt you cant because he hasnt made a single good move since becoming our GM. Maybe hes made some non moves that we dont know about but with the evidence we have been given it's pretty bad at this point.

Losing Stewart is going to hurt because I see the numbers and I see the stuff from watching bats game. Its going to take a elbow injury or something to get me to change my mind on Stewart.

[Bumstead]

If the Reds aren't competitive this year, the trade was terrible; if the Reds are competitive this year then hell just froze over....:

Why rehash this again? How about we rehash it when Jockety resigns Rolen for 3 additional years?...or not...

Bum

[redsof72]

Nate, I am not trying to revisit the wisdom of the deal from a competitive standpoint.

I am saying that if they have to go into a PAYROLL REDUCTION mode, it becomes ironic that a reversal of the Rolen deal would be a more beneficial deal for the Reds than whatever they end up doing. Trading players to cut payroll rarely nets you players of the quality of Zach Stewart. Ask Minnesota what they got for Santana. And are you saying that you would rather give up Phillips than Rolen? Seriously?

Taveras and Lincoln? Those players are not options in terms of cutting payroll. If the Reds could find a team to take those contracts in exchange for a bag of balls, do you think they would still be here?

Rhodes would bring next to nothing. Arroyo and Harang would bring little, similar to the recent Hermida deal. They would just be salary dumps. Cordero would bring more, but he wouldn't bring Zach Stewart. And neither would Rolen, for that matter.

[mdccclxix]

Nothing? Do you think Stewart is a top 32 prospect? If not, and he's listed as Toronto's #1, than yeah, that statement is pretty accurate... I would probably slot Stewart somewhere in the 50-70 range, but that's because he's a groundball starter with questions... Those types of arms don't figure into the top 25... Those guys are projected 7.5 k's/9ip type of guys, and that's probably not Stewart on the major league level... However, that's a HORRIBLE way of quantifying Stewart's value to a team like the Reds who 1/2 of their games in GABP.

I would think there are a few teams without any players in the top 50. Among them appears to be Toronto. Perhaps they're the only one.

We'll see if Stewart emerges as a starter next year, I imagine he will.

[camisadelgolf]

Trading for Rolen is a good deal as long as the Reds make it to the playoffs with him on the roster. Otherwise, it was basically a 'waste' of a couple prospects.