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Thread: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

  1. #361
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    A +22 season is a rare thing. Really people should be buying Gutierrez jerseys instead of dinging defensive metrics.

    Having watched FG a ton, his number is not surprising.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #362
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    So...is anybody going to answer my question about stats relative to a roster? I would just like to know if it exists. Or is impossible to develop. Or is a dumb idea.
    I don't think anyone has a definitive answer, but I posted something similar to your post at about the same time, so I agree that the relation to the roster can't be ignored.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #363
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    So...is anybody going to answer my question about stats relative to a roster? I would just like to know if it exists. Or is impossible to develop. Or is a dumb idea.
    Where was it again?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #364
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    So...is anybody going to answer my question about stats relative to a roster? I would just like to know if it exists. Or is impossible to develop. Or is a dumb idea.
    The answer is 42.

  6. #365
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Here's what I think after reading this thread and having Dunn as my favorite player:

    1. Dunn is one of the worst defenders in the NL.

    2. Dunn is close the upper tier of offensive performers in the NL.

    3. Jonny Gomes is a poor defender.

    4. Jonny Gomes has had a good 240-ish ABs for the Reds this year.

    5. If Jonny Gomes had played more, his bat might've replaced Dunn's bat in LF.

    6. Dusty Baker is the Reds manager.

    7. Gomes might be a good option next year; I wonder if he can be the full-time LF. I wonder what the price/performance cost/tradeoffs might make it worth it.

    8. Resigning proven veterans requires a team to not just pay for what they'll do in the future but what they've done in the past. Taking a chance on Jonny Gomes (or any other "cheap" player) requires the Reds to pay for less "history" but with a less certain "future."

    9. Adam Dunn has a lot of history. I think the Reds hope Jonny Gomes makes a lot of history.

    No stats were used in the creation of this post.
    ABs is a stat. :
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  7. #366
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    This was posted a few pages ago, and should be addressed by both sides of this argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    This article actually kind of gets to the heart of a major statistical question I have. And I hope this doesn't sound too simplistic, but -- are there any stats that successfully and thoroughly take into account a player's value in the context of a given team? Because when I find myself not totally agreeing with the conclusion a set of hard and fast facts put in front of me, this is usually the element that I find is missing.

    Take RMR's argument about Dunn's production being more or less equal to the Nix/Gomes platoon due to the negative cost of his defense balancing out the benefit of his offense (simplifying, but you get the drift). On a basic level, I understand this. The stats are in front of me and I'm actually someone who values defense a little more than most, I think. Add onto this the money saved to the Reds, not that they ever spend any extra cash wisely, but whatever, and I should be jumping for joy over this platoon. But I feel that this ignores the very blatant and painful fact of what the team needs as a whole. The Reds are by no means a defensive powerhouse, but they are an offensive chicken hut. The net loss of Adam Dunn compared to Nix/Gomes in a vaccum is 0, perhaps even positive, but this team can't score any runs, and a player who costs in defense but adds relatively significant offense is worth way more to this team than he would be to, say, the Angels.

    Case in point, the Jeter example brought up in this thread. Jeter is not a good defensive shortstop, but in the context of his team, surrounded by a third baseman who allows him to cheat up the middle and a decent defensive second baseman, the worth of his hitting is allowed to be higher than it might be in the stats. (And I'm not talking about "intangibles".) Conversely, Rafael Furcal is OBPing just .323 with a .258 batting average this year, but he's a pretty quick and nifty shortstop (declining but still underrated in my opinion) playing on a strong offensive team, so he's a fine fit. Park factors also play a stronger role than I think some stats give them credit for; only some pitching stats come close in my opinion, and they more often than not only consider home park factors if I'm not mistaken.

    If a GM could build an entire team with players holding strong + replacement stats at each individual position, that would probably be a great team. Unfortunately, real-world factors make that more or less impossible, and so the team as a whole needs to be considered. This is where instinct takes hold to a degree, but I'm wondering if stats can't be built for this. There are very practical things that must be considered here. I mean, this is pretty much exactly what goes down at the July 31 deadline -- throwing stats to the wind to fill precisely any particular void needed for a team close to the playoffs. Sometimes it's a disaster, but sometimes it completely saves a team. Could an argument be made that the Reds are so bad and so far from the playoffs that disregarding "vacuum" stats in favor of filling holes is something they shouldn't be concerning themselves with yet? I might buy that argument. I dunno. I would just like to see separate stats that deal with what's needed on a team, what offense, defense and pitching are worth on one particular team in the context of its current makeup, not how any given position player stacks up to his counterparts on other teams.

    To a separate point, I believe Dunn's chances at the Hall of Fame will end up utterly dependent on what team he plays for through his 30s. Which is, incidentally, one of the many reasons I don't give the HOF much credence.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #367
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    ABs is a stat. :
    I was just trying to appease the statters!

    Personally, I don't use ABs, I trust my eyes!

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  9. #368
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post

    So, from best to worst, we're looking at a difference of 42.2, regardless of position.

    And, I also don't see symmetry, I see outliers.
    Plot all position players on a histogram. You'll find they make a normal curve. That's what I meant by symmetry. Centered around 0, the spread is essentially the same in both directions, and the bulk of players are close to zero with the amount of players in a given range shrinking quickly once you get beyond 10 runs or so.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 09-13-2009 at 12:21 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #369
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    So...is anybody going to answer my question about stats relative to a roster? I would just like to know if it exists. Or is impossible to develop. Or is a dumb idea.
    First, it’s not a dumb idea. Your question speaks to the heart of many debates that are had on the ORG. Intuitively you’ve put your finger on exactly what sabermetrics has been building toward since Bill James started writing about baseball. Fortunately, not only is such a system possible, it already exists! An explanation is below.
    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    This was posted a few pages ago, and should be addressed by both sides of this argument.
    I absolutely agree because this is a central point that must be addressed when discussing the proper way to valuate players-it’s the ultimate sniff test. In other words, does the approach allow meaningful discussion to be had regarding a player's true total worth and does it relate that worth to its impact on the team’s fortunes on a global scale (i.e. does that production relate to a team’s real runs?). Ultimately, that’s the gold standard concerning usefulness. Here is VP’s original question in the post referenced above:
    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    This article actually kind of gets to the heart of a major statistical question I have. And I hope this doesn't sound too simplistic, but – are there any stats that successfully and thoroughly take into account a player's value in the context of a given team? Because when I find myself not totally agreeing with the conclusion a set of hard and fast facts put in front of me, this is usually the element that I find is missing.
    The answer is absolutely there are stats that successfully and thoroughly take into account a player’s value and places it in the context of what it means to the team…. The system is WAR (wins above replacement) and its freely available at fangraphs.

    WAR calculates marginal wins (wins above freely replaceable production) by using wOBA as the run estimator for offense (a metric that readily converts to runs), UZR (ultimate zone rating; a play-by-play based defensive metric) as the estimate of defensive value, and FIP (fielding independent pitching; estimates a pitcher’s true performance by isolating his peripherals, i.e. things he can control) as an estimate of pitching win value. As a matter of bookkeeping the offensive value provided by pitchers is lumped in with position players. So all phases of the game are measured as a position player's WAR consists of offensive value + defensive value and Pitching War consists of the value pitcher's provide while on the mound. Team WAR is then the sum of Position Player WAR and Pitching War. Importantly, again, both WAR and the individual component metrics are available for free at fangraphs so the whole system is readily accessible for fans to use and to test.

    In several posts in this thread, I’ve explained the approach that WAR uses and why it should be considered the most appropriate way to valuate players so I won’t dwell on that aspect. Instead, I’ll focus on the part of your question that speaks to the heart of the issue-how well does WAR relate back to the team on a global level. In other words, how well does WAR correlate with “real runs”. By answering your question, such criticisms as the following can again be addressed as well:

    1) defensive metrics do not correspond with reality, or
    2) defensive metrics substantially inflate the value of defense, or
    3) expressing player worth in terms of marginal value is inappropriate because while it may suggest something about dollar value, summing offensive runs plus or minus defensive runs does not related to the net runs that a player created/cost his team.

    So in order to test whether summing offensive runs and defensive runs relates to the net runs that a player created/cost his team, I calculated the strength of the linear relationship between team WAR and pythag record (i.e. calculated the correlation coefficient) by regressing total team WAR to pythag wins for all teams from 2002 thru 2009 (the years in which WAR is available from fangraphs). Since WAR is expressed as marginal wins, 47 wins were added to the total WAR for each team so that total WAR and pythag wins could be directly compared. This is because 47 wins represents the expected number of wins for a team comprised completely of replacement level players (replacement level winning percentage=.29 so 162*.29=47 wins). Here are the results by year and for across all seasons:
    Code:
    WAR vs pythag Win
    year corr coef
    2002	0.94
    2003	0.91
    2004	0.93
    2005	0.86
    2006	0.89
    2007	0.92
    2008	0.93
    2009	0.88
    
    '02-'09: 0.92
    These results indicate that when looking across all years for which WAR data is available, WAR gets us 92% of the way to the predicted pythag record. WAR correlates to runs better than OBP and SLG and approaches the correlation of OPS or RC to runs even though admittedly WAR still has room for improvement from a defensive standpoint. In other words, WAR correlates very, very well to “real runs”. Clearly the WAR system of player valuation adds up extremely well at the team level.

    Here’s a break down of the NL central over those years providing a look at how well WAR has correlated with the fortunes of our beloved Reds at the actual run level:
    Code:
    	Wins '02-'09
    team  Pythag	WAR
    cards	707	674
    cubs	660	660
    astros	659	649
    brewers	586	595
    reds	562	550
    pirates	562	551
    
    correlation coefficient=.97
    Clearly WAR has captured what has gone on in the NL central this decade very well. For instance, looking at the Reds over the last 8 seasons, WAR has gotten to within 1 win on average of their pythag record.

    So WAR allows us to calculate total value for a player on a scale that permits comparison to every other player in the league in an apples to apples fashion and these player values can be used to directly gauge the player’s impact on his team at a global level as Team WAR directly correlates to a team’s RS/RA (runs scored/runs against). What’s more, WAR values also correlate directly to market values as explained in earlier posts.

    The WAR system is rooted in reality, allows player valuation to occur on a scale that was previously impossible and it allows such discussion to be had in the context of market value as well. I can’t think of a better way to answer the question of player impact/worth or a better tool to evaluate roster formulation decisions.

    Again, WAR and defensive metrics pass the sniff test as they reflect "real runs" pretty closely.

    While defensive metrics are not prefect and they certainly will be improved as new technologies such as hit f/x allows such metrics to address the issue of quality of chances better, generally, the notions that defensive metrics do not correspond with reality or that they substantially inflate the value of defense or that the summing offensive runs and defensive runs does not relate to the net runs that a player created/cost his team have to be rejected as gross exaggerations of the weaknesses of the approach.

    The WAR approach is not perfect-like all metrics, there are limitations and weaknesses. However, that said, the WAR approach not only passes the sniff test its ability to relate player worth back to the impact such individual worth has on the team makes it the best (actually the only) metric currently available for addressing many of the issues we’ve talked about in this thread and daily on the ORG.

    Given the correlation of WAR to team wins, it's not compelling to argue that WAR is divorced from reality....
    Last edited by jojo; 09-13-2009 at 01:07 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #370
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...%20dunn&st=cse

    Dunn Keeps Swinging Despite Detractors
    By BENJAMIN HOFFMAN

    After an off-season of drawing somewhat limited interest despite an impressive rťsumť, Adam Dunn has rewarded the Washington Nationals for their faith in him by hitting 37 home runs while reaching base more times than Ichiro Suzuki.

    Dunn’s .281 batting average and .409 on-base percentage are career highs. He has reached base 244 times, or 18 more than Suzuki, who is hitting a robust .355 for the Mariners. The change has not taken away any of Dunn’s famed power, though; his .565 slugging percentage is the highest he has had since he slugged .569 in 2004.

    To talk to Dunn is to hear a player who is less concerned with his numbers than with putting together good at-bats and making a winner out of the struggling Nationals.

    But no matter what Dunn does, to many of his critics he is just a lumbering player who strikes out too often.

    “Everyone wants to focus on the negative things more than the things you do well,” Dunn said in a phone interview before Thursday night’s game. “You look at someone like Mark Reynolds, who is having an unbelievable year, and you can’t talk about him without talking about how many times he strikes out. I’m used to hearing it, though.”

    One thing no one has questioned is Dunn’s immense power. With a similar physique, he is often compared to Mark McGwire, the former slugger for the Oakland Athletics and the St. Louis Cardinals. Dunn, 29, has 86 more home runs (315 to 229) than McGwire had at the same age.

    With five consecutive seasons of 40 or more home runs, Dunn is just three home runs short of tying Alex Rodriguez and Sammy Sosa for the second-longest streak. The record is held by Babe Ruth with seven consecutive seasons, not that Dunn is concerned.

    “That kind of stuff is probably a lot more meaningful when you retire and look back on your career,” Dunn said with a bit of a laugh. “As of right now I don’t think of that kind of stuff. That would be added pressure that I definitely don’t need.”

    In a statistical oddity, Dunn has not just had 40 or more home runs in his last four seasons, he has had exactly 40 home runs. For an idea of how rare that is, in baseball’s modern era a batter has finished a season with exactly 40 home runs just 49 times, meaning Dunn’s four seasons account for 8.2 percent of the total.

    Despite the coincidence, Dunn does not think that makes him more likely to hit exactly 40 again this season.

    “I don’t shoot for 40,’’ he said. “I just go out and the at-bat dictates what I’m trying to do. Home runs come in bunches, I could end up with 35 or I could end up with 45.”

    One of the knocks against Dunn is that he supposedly lacks passion for the game. But he has kept up his great season even as the Nationals have struggled to the worst record in the majors at 49-93.

    When asked how he kept his focus in that situation, Dunn said: “It’s easy. It’s pride. Anybody could say this year’s over with and shut the door. Pride won’t allow me to do that. This is what I do for a living.”

  12. #371
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Surprised nobody had posted this yet, just for reference. I limited it to a minimum of 80 PA to filter out the pitchers and cup of coffee guys:
    Code:
    Name		Pos	  Bat	Field	 Repl	 Pos	RAR	 WAR	Dollars
    Brandon Phillips2B	  3.9	  5.2	 18.6	 2.1	29.8	 3.0    $13.4
    Joey Votto	1B	 22.6	 -4.4	 15.4	-8.6	25.0	 2.5	$11.3
    Adam Dunn	1B/OF	 39.8	-31.1	 19.9	-8.5	20.2	 2.0	 $9.1
    Chris Dickerson	OF	  2.1	  9.0	  9.9	-2.5	18.5	 1.8 	 $8.3
    Laynce Nix	OF	 -0.5	  6.4	 10.2	-4.5	11.6	 1.2	 $5.2
    Jay Bruce	OF	 -6.2	  8.9	 11.1	-3.8	10.0	 1.0	 $4.5
    Ryan Hanigan	C	 -5.0	 	  8.9	 6.0	 9.9	 1.0	 $4.5
    Jonny Gomes	OF	 11.9	 -6.6	  9.1	-4.7	 9.8	 1.0	 $4.4
    Paul Janish	SS	-11.4	  8.3	  7.2	 3.1	 7.2	 0.7	 $3.2
    Wladimir Balent	OF	  1.1	  2.9	  3.4	-1.5	 5.9	 0.6	 $2.6
    Jerry Hairston	3B/SS	 -6.7	 -0.8	 11.3	 1.4	 5.2	 0.5	 $2.3
    Drew Stubbs	OF	 -1.9	  2.3	  3.8	 0.4	 4.6	 0.5	 $2.1
    Scott Rolen	3B	 -1.1	  1.5	  3.3	 0.4	 4.0	 0.4	 $1.8
    Ramon Hernandez	C/1B	 -6.8	 -2.4	 10.5	 1.5	 2.9	 0.3	 $1.3
    Edwin Encarnaci 3B	 -1.9	 -5.6	  5.5	 0.7	-1.3	-0.1	($0.6)
    Darnell McDonal OF	 -5.0	  0.8	  2.9	-1.3	-2.6	-0.3	($1.2)
    Willy Taveras	OF	-26.4	  7.8	 14.3	 1.5	-2.8	-0.3	($1.3)
    Adam Rosales	3B	-13.5	  0.5	  8.5	 0.2	-4.2	-0.4	($1.9)
    Alex Gonzalez	SS	-21.0	  2.3	  9.0	 3.1	-6.6	-0.7	($3.0)
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #372
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Surprised nobody had posted this yet, just for reference. I limited it to a minimum of 80 PA to filter out the pitchers and cup of coffee guys:
    Code:
    Name		Pos	  Bat	Field	 Repl	 Pos	RAR	 WAR	Dollars
    Brandon Phillips2B	  3.9	  5.2	 18.6	 2.1	29.8	 3.0    $13.4
    Joey Votto	1B	 22.6	 -4.4	 15.4	-8.6	25.0	 2.5	$11.3
    Adam Dunn	1B/OF	 39.8	-31.1	 19.9	-8.5	20.2	 2.0	 $9.1
    Chris Dickerson	OF	  2.1	  9.0	  9.9	-2.5	18.5	 1.8 	 $8.3
    Laynce Nix	OF	 -0.5	  6.4	 10.2	-4.5	11.6	 1.2	 $5.2
    Jay Bruce	OF	 -6.2	  8.9	 11.1	-3.8	10.0	 1.0	 $4.5
    Ryan Hanigan	C	 -5.0	 	  8.9	 6.0	 9.9	 1.0	 $4.5
    Jonny Gomes	OF	 11.9	 -6.6	  9.1	-4.7	 9.8	 1.0	 $4.4
    Paul Janish	SS	-11.4	  8.3	  7.2	 3.1	 7.2	 0.7	 $3.2
    Wladimir Balent	OF	  1.1	  2.9	  3.4	-1.5	 5.9	 0.6	 $2.6
    Jerry Hairston	3B/SS	 -6.7	 -0.8	 11.3	 1.4	 5.2	 0.5	 $2.3
    Drew Stubbs	OF	 -1.9	  2.3	  3.8	 0.4	 4.6	 0.5	 $2.1
    Scott Rolen	3B	 -1.1	  1.5	  3.3	 0.4	 4.0	 0.4	 $1.8
    Ramon Hernandez	C/1B	 -6.8	 -2.4	 10.5	 1.5	 2.9	 0.3	 $1.3
    Edwin Encarnaci 3B	 -1.9	 -5.6	  5.5	 0.7	-1.3	-0.1	($0.6)
    Darnell McDonal OF	 -5.0	  0.8	  2.9	-1.3	-2.6	-0.3	($1.2)
    Willy Taveras	OF	-26.4	  7.8	 14.3	 1.5	-2.8	-0.3	($1.3)
    Adam Rosales	3B	-13.5	  0.5	  8.5	 0.2	-4.2	-0.4	($1.9)
    Alex Gonzalez	SS	-21.0	  2.3	  9.0	 3.1	-6.6	-0.7	($3.0)
    More evidense of a flawed system. If Willy Taveras is a positive defender in CF there has to be something wrong. The guy breaks the wrong way on every fly ball. I expect much better from CF and not so much from LF.

    Does the positional number mean that Dunn and Votto are penalized nearly 1 win because of the positions they play? If so, I say its bunk.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #373
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    More evidense of a flawed system. If Willy Taveras is a positive defender in CF there has to be something wrong. The guy breaks the wrong way on every fly ball. I expect much better from CF and not so much from LF.

    Does the positional number mean that Dunn and Votto are penalized nearly 1 win because of the positions they play? If so, I say its bunk.
    Tavares is not that bad. Yes, he has terrible instincts. You'll get no argument from me. Thing is, though, he does cover a ton of ground out there. When he doesn't misjudge a ball, he gets to a lot of balls that some guys don't get to.

    I would still say he's an above-average defensive player because of his range (not instincts). Is he a star out there? Goodness no. But he does get to balls when he's not taking a poor first step.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #374
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Does the positional number mean that Dunn and Votto are penalized nearly 1 win because of the positions they play? If so, I say its bunk.
    Yet WAR leads one straight to a team's pythag record....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #375
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now - Dunn having year we always hoped for

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Yet WAR leads one straight to a team's pythag record....
    Nonsense.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

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