Agreed. This is why I've always felt that Alonso will be traded. Maybe as early as this winter.With Alonso, it seems more cut and dried. He only plays first and either Votto has to move positions or one of them has to be traded. I don't see Alonso hanging around as a pure backup first baseman lefty pinch hitter, like Barker is currently.
I heard an interesting rumor from a scout yesterday involving the whole Frazier/Francisco/Rolen/Alonso/Votto situation with all the spots for 3 guys. Rumor has it that the Reds have plans to move one of them and its not the guy anyone expects.Originally Posted by BRM
BY move do you mean positional switch or trade?I heard an interesting rumor from a scout yesterday involving the whole Frazier/Francisco/Rolen/Alonso/Votto situation with all the spots for 3 guys. Rumor has it that the Reds have plans to move one of them and its not the guy anyone expects.
Trade.
Well, I'll guess it's either Alonso or Votto.Trade.
One of those guys is right. And its not the younger guy.
I don't get that at all, unless they already know what they can get back. Putting him on the market for the first time this offseason signals that the team is uncomfortable with him for some reason, likely rooted in the health problems he had this year, and it devalues him.One of those guys is right. And its not the younger guy.
So, I'd assume they have a team targeted and have discussed Votto with them already.
From what the scout heard, the Reds don't think they can count on Votto anymore than they thought they could count on Josh Hamilton.
I see. Who knows what to make of it -- just talk. Odd though.From what the scout heard, the Reds don't think they can count on Votto anymore than they thought they could count on Josh Hamilton.
Those two situations aren't even remotely close to each other. That's just sad if TPTB actually feel that way about a guy who works so hard for this team. I hope the scout is wrong because that would tarnish the Reds a bit in my mind especially after seeing how they handled his whole situation earlier this year.
"I tried to play golf, but I found out I wasn't very good." -Joey Votto on his offseason hobby search
An MLB.com reporter asked what one thing Votto couldn’t do. “I can’t skate or play hockey,” Votto said. “Well, I can skate ... but I can’t stop.”
Well, I said it on draft day that there was a very real possibility votto could be traded with the selection of alonso.
I said it again in the Jose Reyes thread in the Org.
And I still think it could be a potential gamble that pays off if votto can land you that kind of talent.
The reds have a lot of 1b types coming up the pipe. On the surface its a lateral move.
But its a lot easier to fill a hole at 1b than it is, say SS, for example.
Votto could bring in the haul that leads to the holes finally getting plugged, and a better, balanced, well rounded roster.
Its going to take some guts and shrewdness though.
"I hate to advocate chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone... But they've always worked for me."
-Hunter S. Thompson
Reds paid Alonso a major bonus when he signed.
I've always wondered whether that would indicate the Reds intended to keep Alonso and trade Votto.
Why pay a big bonus to a draft pick and then trade him within a year or two, for a small market team?
The reasons that the two were unreliable are certainly different, but I think that the situations are the same. I don't think it would tarnish the Reds if they traded him and got a good return for him. They obviously aren't going to trade him for someone like Dave Williams or anything, but I think that a professional sports team has to understand and know that there are chances that a guy might just go back to that state and be unable to play again.Those two situations aren't even remotely close to each other. That's just sad if TPTB actually feel that way about a guy who works so hard for this team. I hope the scout is wrong because that would tarnish the Reds a bit in my mind especially after seeing how they handled his whole situation earlier this year.
If you want to stock pile the Reds you have to take the marlins way and trade someone like Votto. After this season even with the mental lapse is a great time to trade high on a guy. Hope they target the right players if they ever go that route.
Id also be willing to part with Phillips for the same reasons. I love Phillips and Votto both but they are both prime guys that could net a huge load of talent to fill other needs as long as the Reds target the right guys.
Last edited by GIDP; 09-10-2009 at 04:18 PM.
Theres's a way in which trading Votto because you think he's unreliable is self-defeating. You've got to think he's completely reliable, as I suspect he is, and then trade him to another team that thinks that too; that's how we'd get the maximum value for him. I do suspect, as I've said over on the game threads, that Votto's no longer in the "untouchable" category and that's precisely because he's someone we can trade to fill a much more difficult-to-fill need--SS or C--and because 1b is where we have people in the pipeline. But here as elsewhere all the difficulties are going to be in the particulars and I doubt the org's any closer to trading any of the 5 (and I'm not really sure why it's not 7, Phillips and Bruce included) than they have been at any time.
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