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Thread: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

  1. #16
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by travisgrimes View Post
    Wouldnt mind seeing this opening day lineup:

    1. CF Drew Stubbs
    2. 2B Todd Frazier
    3. 1B Joey Votto
    4. SS Brandon Phillips
    5. RF Jay Bruce
    6. 3B Scott Rolen
    7. LF Juan Francisco
    8. C Ryan Hanigan
    9. P

    Let Alonso have one more year in AAA and when Rolen's contract is up put Francisco at 3rd and Alonso is LF
    I think I'd rather Votto at 3B than Fransisco.... Those arms in the OF would be awesome though.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #17
    Member GOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Code:
    Player	        AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	AVG
    Bolivar LF	5	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	.154
    Heisey CF	5	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	.214
    Bruce DH	4	0	1	0	0	0	0	1	2	.143
    Frazier 2B	5	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	.308
    Francisco 3B	5	0	2	0	0	0	1	0	1	.357
    Valaika SS	5	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	.250
    Alonso 1B	3	1	2	0	0	1	1	1	0	.250
    Ford RF	        3	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	.286
    Denove C	3	2	1	0	0	1	1	1	0	.273
    
    Player	        IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA
    LeCure (L, 0-1)	6.0	6	4	4	3	2	0	6.00
    Kennard, J 	2.0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0.00
    Baez, Fe 	1.0	2	0	0	0	0	0	27.00

  4. #18
    Member GOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Kennard is not healthy

    His fastball was high 80s with 1 91 and 1 92

    He was consistently 95-96 before his injury.

    There were plenty of chances to win this game. Our stacked offense couldn't come up with the big hit.

  5. #19
    Member GOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by travisgrimes View Post
    Wouldnt mind seeing this opening day lineup:

    1. CF Drew Stubbs
    2. 2B Todd Frazier
    3. 1B Joey Votto
    4. SS Brandon Phillips
    5. RF Jay Bruce
    6. 3B Scott Rolen
    7. LF Juan Francisco
    8. C Ryan Hanigan
    9. P
    You don't want to see Frazier at 2B

    At some point, Bruce's upside has to balanced with what he is bringing to the club on a day to day basis. Dorn very well might outperform Bruce at the plate.

  6. #20
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    You don't want to see Frazier at 2B

    At some point, Bruce's upside has to balanced with what he is bringing to the club on a day to day basis. Dorn very well might outperform Bruce at the plate.
    Why don't you want to see Frazier at 2nd? He can't be that bad since he is able to play short and 3rd?

  7. #21
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Goya, is Frazier slow around the bag on double play turns? He's unusually tall and big for a 2b man and this is where that size is sometimes disadvantageous. Or is your objection based more on his range? Or both?

  8. #22
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    You don't want to see Frazier at 2B

    At some point, Bruce's upside has to balanced with what he is bringing to the club on a day to day basis. Dorn very well might outperform Bruce at the plate.
    I like Dorn as a player and I think he will be a nice player for the Reds but I don't see him outperforming Bruce at the plate ever.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  9. #23
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Goya, is Frazier slow around the bag on double play turns? He's unusually tall and big for a 2b man and this is where that size is sometimes disadvantageous. Or is your objection based more on his range? Or both?
    I've seen him around ten games since he's moved up, so perhaps I can answer. From what I've seen, he's okay at second, but lacks range. He is also learning the position so his footwork is a work in progress. But he's already good around the bag on the double play and his arm will absolutely play there.

    It will probably take the winter and Spring Training before he's good enough to play there as an offensive player. It'll take him a couple years to be average or better.

    Really, Frazier at second depends on his bat. If he can OPS at 800+, he's worth it. If he's a 700 or worse OPS bat, he's too much of a drag.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  10. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I've seen him around ten games since he's moved up, so perhaps I can answer. From what I've seen, he's okay at second, but lacks range. He is also learning the position so his footwork is a work in progress. But he's already good around the bag on the double play and his arm will absolutely play there.

    It will probably take the winter and Spring Training before he's good enough to play there as an offensive player. It'll take him a couple years to be average or better.

    Really, Frazier at second depends on his bat. If he can OPS at 800+, he's worth it. If he's a 700 or worse OPS bat, he's too much of a drag.
    Seems to me a .700 or worse OPS at 2B is too much of a drag even if he's a top defender. If he's a range challenged mediocrity, I'm not sure anything short of .900 is worth it.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #25
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    An 800 OPS+ is worth a below average glove at 2B if he has a high ceiling and is likely to improve at that position.

    He does and he should.

    Frazier is likely, next season, to OPS around 800, making him slightly above average for all of baseball. As a 2B, that should put him in the top five at least, more likely top three. His glove can play there for that offensive production.

    Anything less than 780 and his value plummets because another 2B with a much better glove (re: range) can boost his overall game ahead of Frazier.

    At this point, Frazier is the mirror image of Brandon Phillips.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  12. #26
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Bats lose 4-3. Francisco 2 for 5, Frazier 2 for 5, Alonso 2 for 3 with a HR and a wallk. Look for all three in Cinti. next year.
    With the wrong guy managing them in Cincy.

  13. #27
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Thanks, Scrap, for the comments on Frazier. If he can be competent at 2b and put up .800, I'll be happy--assuming Phillips is at least league average or better defensively at SS. I'd still probably prefer keeping Phillips at 2b and looking for a really good defender and offensive player at SS. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

  14. #28
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Let Frazier play 3rd or somebody else. Get rid of Rolen. Rolen's a bum. His .715 OPS that he's hitting since joining the REDS and his lack of range over the last two seasons aren't flukes. It's because he's long, long, over-the-hill. Rolen's toast. Rolen's done. Rolen's not worth the money he's earning when there are several players in the organization that could step right in immediately and do as well.

  15. #29
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Let Frazier play 3rd or somebody else. Get rid of Rolen. Rolen's a bum. His .715 OPS that he's hitting since joining the REDS and his lack of range over the last two seasons aren't flukes. It's because he's long, long, over-the-hill. Rolen's toast. Rolen's done. Rolen's not worth the money he's earning when there are several players in the organization that could step right in immediately and do as well.
    Whoa, there. I hated the trade too, but Rolen isn't a bum. IMO, the Reds overpaid in terms of talent and dollars, but he's still a plus player. He's not the impact guy the team needed to get when it went shopping with its top chips and last dollar, but he is by no means a throw away.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  16. #30
    Member GOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Friday 9/11/09 Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I like Dorn as a player and I think he will be a nice player for the Reds but I don't see him outperforming Bruce at the plate ever.
    I'd say he's doing it right now.


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