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Thread: who is in the 2010 rotation?

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    who is in the 2010 rotation?

    I would place Cueto, Harang & Arroyo as locks. All three have been decent this year (ERA+ ~100 or a bit higher). I look at Harang & Arroyo as #3 starters and Cueto as hopefully a #2 type in 2010.

    Homer is going to get a spot in 2010 unless he really blows up. He has the stuff and is showing signs that he is improving. His 2009 starts overall are way way better than his 2008 starts.

    That leaves one open slot:

    Volquez not only had TJ surgery he also had something else fixed in his arm. The ETA for his return is May-June-July of 2010. If the Reds count on him to be a part of the 2010 rotation this is a terrible plan IMO. IF he makes a good recovery from surgery his arm isn't going to be near what it was in 2008 until he gets time to heal and innings under his belt. I know some pitchers have done well in the pen the first year back from TJ, then they go back to the rotation 2 years after surgery.

    Travis Wood is the best pitching prospect we have. If anyone comes from AAA it should be him. No way I want Maloney, Ramirez,etc to be counted on as a rotation arm. I also don't want someone like Lehr, Wells, etc.
    I would prefer Wood start 2010 in AAA giving us depth.
    If 2010 goes sour then Bronson goes at the deadline and Wood takes his place. If 2010 goes well & Wood pitches well, thats a nice problem to have.

    There are a few free agents of interest. Lackey, Harden, Doug Davis, Randy Wolf.

    A trade is possible. One problem here is that we don't have that much to trade and we are going to have to get a SS via this route.

    I would like the Reds to go after the best type B free agent arm available (we won't know who is a type A until after the season).
    The 2010 rotation could be:
    Cueto
    Harang
    Arroyo
    Wolf/Doug Davis/etc
    Bailey

    The 2011 rotation could then be:
    Cueto
    Possibly Harang (Reds have 2011 option)
    Wolf/Doug Davis/etc
    Volquez
    Bailey
    Wood or even Leake

    thoughts?
    .

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  3. #2
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    I think you're right Will, but I don't think there is enough money to get a Wolf or a Davis. The best option may be a reclamation project who could jump to the top if he comes back. I like Ben Sheets for that based on pre injury talent. Of course if he's cheap enough for the Reds, he'll probably have 30 teams to pick from.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    I'm guessing Owings is the fifth starter or perhaps Jocketty goes garbage bin diving for a guy like Kip Wells, who's got good stuff and a poor resume. Jocketty also usually was able, in the past, to choose from older guys who Duncan would mold into solid MOR starters.

    Hope Duncan leaves STL, comes to Cincinnati, and Jocketty is able to find him another Woody Williams.
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Speaking of current or ex STL projects, both Marquis and Pineiro are free agents, I believe. Anybody interested in either of them?

  6. #5
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Sign Dave Duncan, and bring in Jeff Weaver and other assorted losers for Duncan to turn into winners.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  7. #6
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I'm guessing Owings is the fifth starter or perhaps Jocketty goes garbage bin diving for a guy like Kip Wells, who's got good stuff and a poor resume. Jocketty also usually was able, in the past, to choose from older guys who Duncan would mold into solid MOR starters.

    Hope Duncan leaves STL, comes to Cincinnati, and Jocketty is able to find him another Woody Williams.
    IMO Owings has pretty pedestrian stuff and has plenty of chances to prove himself as a major league starter. he failed. time for him to go to the pen.

    is Duncan's contract up? would be an improvement over Pole and we would all expect him to turn Kip Wells into Arang Harang #2.
    however, i seem to recall the Atlanta pitching coach not being able to replicate his magic in Baltimore.
    .

  8. #7
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    IMO Owings has pretty pedestrian stuff and has plenty of chances to prove himself as a major league starter. he failed. time for him to go to the pen.

    is Duncan's contract up? would be an improvement over Pole and we would all expect him to turn Kip Wells into Arang Harang #2.
    however, i seem to recall the Atlanta pitching coach not being able to replicate his magic in Baltimore.
    Not only is his contract up, but since the trade of his son, everyone is predicting that he will coach somewhere else next season. However, pretty much everyone will want him, which makes the Reds chances of signing him dim.

    As for Mazzone, he went to Baltimore to be with his good friend Sam Perlazzo. When Perlazzo got fired, Mazzone planned on quitting, but was fired before he could. He didn't have much effect on the O's pitching staff, but he was there just over a year, so it's hard to judge him on it.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  9. #8
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    How about getting a pretty solid arm this year--say, Marquis? Then we go Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, Harang next year with Marquis. If Volquez can contribute that's gravy, but we're not counting on him. This group could be competitive with a solid pen and a bit more offense. If everything goes right and we're in the race, we keep them to the end of the season; if not, we deal Arroyo and Harang in the stretch. Then, for 2011, we go for the top of the line guy--Halladay. 2011 then is Halladay, Bailey, Volquez, Cueto, Marquis and/or Wood if he's shown he can do it.

  10. #9
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Duncan is being talked about as being available next year because they traded away his son and is unhappy about other stuff. The Cubs may go after him as well
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

  11. #10
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Is Jason Marquis really a "solid arm"? Somehow I had him pegged as a "terrible but ridiculously lucky" arm, but I could have been misguided on that.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  12. #11
    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    I wouldn't add any significant payroll on the pitching staff; all our reosurces need to be used on finding another bat, preferably a SS.

    I wouldn't discount Lehr as a placeholder until Wood is ready.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

  13. #12
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    I wouldn't add any significant payroll on the pitching staff; all our reosurces need to be used on finding another bat, preferably a SS.

    I wouldn't discount Lehr as a placeholder until Wood is ready.
    If the Reds really want to get better next year, they need to improve LF, SS, and C with players who can hit. They should keep Gomes, Janish, and Hanigan as bench players along with Dickerson and one more guy.

    The Reds also need to add relievers. Right now, it's Coco, Rhodes, Herrera and Massett for next year. Owings probably will be the long man. That leaves two spots, and one needs to be a guy who can work late innings.

    The starters will likely be Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto and a fifth guy from Wood, Lehr, Maloney, Wells, or some new cheap pickup. Given the dire need for offense on this team, I agree that filling the fifth starters' spot cannot be a major priority right now. Hopefully Volquez comes back strong before the end of the 2010 season.

  14. #13
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Is Jason Marquis really a "solid arm"? Somehow I had him pegged as a "terrible but ridiculously lucky" arm, but I could have been misguided on that.
    94-81 with a career 4.5 era is solid, just not great

    75-80 4.25 Harang
    83-82 4.29 Arroyo
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

  15. #14
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    Turn Herrera into a starter. There, problems fixed. :O)

    Hey, if nothing else, it would be fun as heck to watch. *grin*

    Seriously though, I think we've got several solid candidates for 5th starter roles. So Harang, Arroyo, Cueto & Bailey are locked in my opinion. The 5th slot can be haggled over with Lehr, Owings, Ramirez, Maloney, etc, etc. I don't think Wood will be ready yet and I don't really like rushing pitchers. Hitters, fine. Not the arms.

    I'd prefer we sink our available payroll into finding a solid bat for left field. I like Gomes, but I don't see him being the answer full time. Platoon, sure, but I'd rather he gets pushed to the bench.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
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  16. #15
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the 2010 rotation?

    If we want to compete next year, we have to get a legitimate front end guy to go along with Harang and Arroyo. Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, and some random #5 won't get us anywhere.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."


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