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View Poll Results: What do you want to see from Stubbs going forward?

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  • His current .760 OPS is just fine

    22 24.72%
  • Would like to see a higher OBP, even at expense of some SLG

    51 57.30%
  • Would like to see the SLG continue to climb

    2 2.25%
  • Not satisfied with a .760 OPS

    4 4.49%
  • Slightly lower than .760 would still be justifed by defense

    10 11.24%
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Thread: Drew Stubbs

  1. #181
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Granted, Crawford's gonna get expensive for their blood, but why give up on BJ Upton?
    Maybe because's he too is about to get expensive, and is having the type of season that your basiclaly afraid that Stubbs is going to have next year.

    But alas, the grass must be greener, right?

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  3. #182
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    And you can keep pointing out HR's didn't would be HR's elsewhere, like thaqt doesn't happen EVERY DAY in MLB. And it doesn't add up to anything other than you have been championing a guy that has a sub par bat at every level he's played at while being rushed through the system.

    on this we'll never agree.
    I don't know how many more HRs and doubles this guy needs to hit to convince you.

    Look, I'm not sold that this guy is everyday material. I think he needs to make more contact and hit a curveball every now and then. But I'm not the least bit concerned that power is a problem. He was never signed to be a cleanup hitter anyway. Your 100s of posts on this seems unwarranted and you're looking more and more silly with every extra base hit he gets.

  4. #183
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    While I would LOVE for that trade to happen, why in the blue Hell would the Rays do that?

    Granted, Crawford's gonna get expensive for their blood, but why give up on BJ Upton?
    MLBTR has piece on how The Rays might need to choose between the two. I agree that it is doubtful that they will want to trade both.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/0...-or-upton.html
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  5. #184
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    MLBTR has piece on how The Rays might need to choose between the two. I agree that it is doubtful that they will want to trade both.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/0...-or-upton.html
    There's talk that the Rays are in fact wanting to trim payroll (or at least, prevent an increase). Since it's not practical right now to rid of Burrell, the thinking is that they won't pick up the option on Iwamura and then need to either not pick up the option on Crawford or trade Upton.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #185
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    I think that's at least part (possibly a big part) of why they dealt Kazmir. Kazmir, Iwamura, Percival, Bradford, and Springer accounted for $20 million this year in payroll. Kazmir and Percival are already gone and the others have contracts that are up after this year. With those players off the books I was thinking they'd be able to pick up the 2010 option on Crawford and then play it by ear. But who knows with less attendance/revenue.

    They really need to deal Burrell (even if they have to throw in a couple million) and find a 1st baseman to take over for Pena cuz I doubt they'll keep him after 2010. Dealing Alonso to them would make sense but noway if we got Pena. It would have to make sense for both teams financially. I'd much rather see the Reds deal Alonso + for one of their young pitchers (Davis, Hellickson, McGee, etc) and Brignac.

    I also heard the deal that "Doc Rodgers" proposed. I thought he included Cordero in the deal. But anyway, it made me laugh.

    My hope is that Taveras is gone by April, doesn't matter how, and that center is left to Stubbs and Dickerson.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  7. #186
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    For about the past couple years many have suggested including Stubbs in a trade. They have considered him a throw in piece and a person that wouldn't hurt if he was gone. The more and more PT Stubbs gets, the more he shows the has the ability to be a very good CF. Stubbs is my answer to the CF position for the next handful of years. His power looks legit and his walk rate is improving. It finally looks like the Reds have a great defensive CF whose offensive game may be an asset to the club. If Stubbs can post a .350 OBP while hitting 20 Hrs a year he would be a very good CF.

  8. #187
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    We all know who's starting in CF once that player returns from the DL.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Well... not according to what Jocketty said today.
    Walt doesn't make out the lineup card. If Wily is on the roster, I have little doubt he'll get plenty of playing time.

  9. #188
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I don't know how many more HRs and doubles this guy needs to hit to convince you.

    Look, I'm not sold that this guy is everyday material. I think he needs to make more contact and hit a curveball every now and then. But I'm not the least bit concerned that power is a problem. He was never signed to be a cleanup hitter anyway. Your 100s of posts on this seems unwarranted and you're looking more and more silly with every extra base hit he gets.
    1 full season. I want to see him show power for 1 full season. but gosh thanks for telling me how silly i look.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  10. #189
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    I want to see him show power for 1 full season
    Can you define what you mean by power?
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  11. #190
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Carlos Pena and his .220 BA might not be as fun to watch up close...
    He certainly provides solid D and boatloads of offense.

    Neither of those things the Reds should ignore.

  12. #191
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Can you define what you mean by power?
    Sure. an .800+ OPS on average. I keep reading that Stubbs ceiling is Mike Cameron, when he's never really hit as well as Cameron at any level. But supposedly Cameron is his ceiling. OK.

    From what I have seen, and this ridiculously hot September notwithstanding, Stubbs is more of a .730 OPS guy, and possibly worse. If the optimists want to define his ceiling as Cameron, what's his floor? I say it's Corey Patterson. Similar D, both prone to lots of K's. Stubbs has a better ability (by far) to take a walk, both contact challenged. Not a perfect comp, but it is still a pretty low floor.

    I am so tired of HOPING for more from Reds prospects when all the numbers say meh. I was on the Tyler Pelland bandwagon for what... 4 years? I thought both Pauly and Gardner would come back healthy. I thought this was the breakout year for Dorn. It really is time to accept a few things.
    1. the Reds aren't that deep in either pitching or positional talent
    2. the Reds scouting and development departments don't seem to mesh
    3. the reds have only developed 2 successful position players in the last 10 years (Votto and Dunn)
    4. and just 1 starting pitcher (Cueto) and he still has question marks.


    I'm sick of settling. I'm sick of devoting time to watch this team flounder in June because of stupid mistakes in the off season that 90% of this board howled about. All I want is the best team on the field, and the best minds running that team.

    And that hasn't been the case in over a decade, not since JimBo didn't suck. And even then the ownership was hurting the team.

    So, .290/.380/.420 ish A little speed, don't care too much about gobs of SB's, but scoring from 1st on a double is nice. 65-70 or more BB's. 17-25 HR's with spurts of 30 every now and then.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #192
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Maybe because's he too is about to get expensive, and is having the type of season that your basiclaly afraid that Stubbs is going to have next year.

    But alas, the grass must be greener, right?
    The Rays can develop young talent, the Reds cannot.

    I'll take a chance on the Rays' sloppy seconds.

    Although I'm sure I would easily get pissed off watching balls go over Upton's head in CF b/c he plays too damn shallow and thinks he can break back and catch stuff over his head.

  14. #193
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    For about the past couple years many have suggested including Stubbs in a trade. They have considered him a throw in piece and a person that wouldn't hurt if he was gone. The more and more PT Stubbs gets, the more he shows the has the ability to be a very good CF. Stubbs is my answer to the CF position for the next handful of years. His power looks legit and his walk rate is improving. It finally looks like the Reds have a great defensive CF whose offensive game may be an asset to the club. If Stubbs can post a .350 OBP while hitting 20 Hrs a year he would be a very good CF.
    Offensive game may be an asset, such a ringing endorsement of Young Stubbs' offensive abilities...

    Stubbs isn't a 20 HR guy, but I'm hoping more than anything that he can get his OBP North of .350 so that he does actually provide some offensive value and we can put his offensive game in the asset category.

    If Stubbs doesn't improve his OBP, we'll watch that SLG disappear as well, and then he'll just be a rangey gloveman. Whoopie.

    Rangey gloveman with no bat = Corey Patterson

  15. #194
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    So, .290/.380/.420 ish A little speed, don't care too much about gobs of SB's, but scoring from 1st on a double is nice. 65-70 or more BB's. 17-25 HR's with spurts of 30 every now and then.
    So, if Stubbs does not reach this bar, one you never would have anticipated he could reach, you'll be dissatisfied with his play?
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  16. #195
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Sure. an .800+ OPS on average. I keep reading that Stubbs ceiling is Mike Cameron, when he's never really hit as well as Cameron at any level. But supposedly Cameron is his ceiling. OK.

    From what I have seen, and this ridiculously hot September notwithstanding, Stubbs is more of a .730 OPS guy, and possibly worse. If the optimists want to define his ceiling as Cameron, what's his floor? I say it's Corey Patterson. Similar D, both prone to lots of K's. Stubbs has a better ability (by far) to take a walk, both contact challenged. Not a perfect comp, but it is still a pretty low floor.

    I am so tired of HOPING for more from Reds prospects when all the numbers say meh. I was on the Tyler Pelland bandwagon for what... 4 years? I thought both Pauly and Gardner would come back healthy. I thought this was the breakout year for Dorn. It really is time to accept a few things.
    1. the Reds aren't that deep in either pitching or positional talent
    2. the Reds scouting and development departments don't seem to mesh
    3. the reds have only developed 2 successful position players in the last 10 years (Votto and Dunn)
    4. and just 1 starting pitcher (Cueto) and he still has question marks.


    I'm sick of settling. I'm sick of devoting time to watch this team flounder in June because of stupid mistakes in the off season that 90% of this board howled about. All I want is the best team on the field, and the best minds running that team.

    And that hasn't been the case in over a decade, not since JimBo didn't suck. And even then the ownership was hurting the team.

    So, .290/.380/.420 ish A little speed, don't care too much about gobs of SB's, but scoring from 1st on a double is nice. 65-70 or more BB's. 17-25 HR's with spurts of 30 every now and then.
    It seems the constant theme within the last couple of years is that even though the Reds can't develop young talent, some of the fanbase (for whatever reason) thinks our prospects are better than they really are, and unrealistically expect stuff out of these prospects when they've never yielded the results that some of the fanbase wants.

    All of this seems most obvious when we kick around hypothetical trades on RZ, or when we're grading trades that include prospects when the Reds actually make them. That same fanbase that expects the prospects to be better than they can never wants to trade prospects, or wants to only trade prospects that most of us have never heard of, or when we infrequently do trade prospects, that part of the fanbase is up in arms that we just gave away the future.

    I've long been a proponent of trading prospects for proven talent, and my position becomes more entrenched as the Reds continue to not develop young talent. My logic is pretty simple:

    If we can't develop young talent, why hang onto these guys? If other teams want them and feel they can develop them, and have some proven MLB talent that can help us, and they'll part with that MLB talent, then it seems like a no-brainer to me.

    Part of me also thinks that the reason we don't trade prospects to other teams for MLB talent is that the other teams know that our prospects aren't as good as we think they are.

    Nothing like hanging onto our Fool's Gold, hoping it becomes the real thing.


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