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Thread: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

  1. #91
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You do know that Stubbs was a slightly above average center fielder in his time with the Reds don't you? Sure, an upgrade to well above average would be nice, but if Drew Stubbs is on this team next year and repeats what he did this year he won't be anything remotely close to 'the problem' if the Reds aren't good.
    I know that Stubbs contributed greatly defensively, and in very limited time put up some decent (although completely foreign to him) numbers. IMO, Stubbs is a downgrade from Dickerson, so I'd rather the Reds figure out who and what the Hell they have in CF by letting Dickerson essentially have the job to lose out of ST. Unfortunately with Willy Taveras in the mix, that won't happen. With Stubbs making the most of his opportunity late in the season, I feel it only clouds the issue even more.

    I can't be the only one thinking that hoping that Stubbs repeats what he did in very limited time over the full course of being the everyday CF in 2010 is an extremely short-sighted way to enter 2010, can I?

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  3. #92
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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    For the most part, I really liked what I saw of Balentien in Cincy. Tremendously improved k/bb rate, good plate presence, solid d, good wheels.

    That said, go out and get Jason Bay.
    Jason Bay is arguably the worst defensive LF in all of baseball.

    There, I said it.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You need to factor Stubbs GG fielding in CF. Dickerson is a marginal CF. stubbs might also steal you 50 bases.
    On what planet is Dickerson a marginal CF, b/c it sure as heck isn't Earth.

    Right now Chris Dickerson is our best proven CF, and our best option to bat leadoff.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I think the one to package is Heisey. Thoughts?
    Given that Heisey's struggling in AAA, and clearly has to be at best 3rd on the CF organizational depth chart behind Dickerson and Stubbs, IMO it would make Heisey expendable given the right trade offer.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    I know that Stubbs contributed greatly defensively, and in very limited time put up some decent (although completely foreign to him) numbers. IMO, Stubbs is a downgrade from Dickerson, so I'd rather the Reds figure out who and what the Hell they have in CF by letting Dickerson essentially have the job to lose out of ST. Unfortunately with Willy Taveras in the mix, that won't happen. With Stubbs making the most of his opportunity late in the season, I feel it only clouds the issue even more.

    I can't be the only one thinking that hoping that Stubbs repeats what he did in very limited time over the full course of being the everyday CF in 2010 is an extremely short-sighted way to enter 2010, can I?
    I am with you, I am not at all comfy with Stubbs yet and that probably won't change for quite some time, get back to me about this time next off-season. I still believe a Heisey/Dickerson platoon would give us more production and although neither is as good a defender they certainly wouldn't be bad there.
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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I am with you, I am not at all comfy with Stubbs yet and that probably won't change for quite some time, get back to me about this time next off-season. I still believe a Heisey/Dickerson platoon would give us more production and although neither is as good a defender they certainly wouldn't be bad there.
    If you held a gun to my head and said "Heisey or Stubbs", I'd pick Stubbs, just b/c I think he's better defensively.

    IMO, it seems that Heisey's the kinda hitter that Stubbs acted like @ the MLB level: low SLG, decent SLG.

    On the other hand, aside from his Large French Vanilla with the Reds in August and September, Stubbs has been a higher OBP, low SLG guy (and a guy I wish would show up).

    Now if Heisey magically learned to improve his OBP to a Stubbsian minor league level, then it would make my choice a tad more difficult.

    I do think that right now Stubbs has better trade value than Heisey, so if we're trading Stubbs, getting something solid in return and we're left with a Heisey/Dickerson platoon for 2010, then I'm comfortably ok with that.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I really don't think Taveras has a shot at starting, no matter what kind of spring he has. If Baker was as partial to him as people fear, he would have played more down the stretch this year.

    Hopefully. But after he came off the DL, in the games he did start (2 of them, IIRC) the Reds not only won but scored a lot of runs. Small sample size, to be sure, but one might come to the conclusion that Willy T wasn't the problem. Maybe it was Jay Bruce hitting in the low .200s or Votto being on the DL for the better part of a month or Volquez going down with arm trouble or not having a bat like Rolen's in the lineup.
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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Hopefully. But after he came off the DL, in the games he did start (2 of them, IIRC) the Reds not only won but scored a lot of runs. Small sample size, to be sure, but one might come to the conclusion that Willy T wasn't the problem. Maybe it was Jay Bruce hitting in the low .200s or Votto being on the DL for the better part of a month or Volquez going down with arm trouble or not having a bat like Rolen's in the lineup.
    One player is never the problem. One player only represents 11% of an offense per game, much less over the whole season. If there is a decent lineup around him, he really shouldn't drag them down that much. I think it was all the things you mentioned happening at the same time.

    Sometimes not even two is a problem. The Orioles in the 70's had Mark Belanger (.580 OPS) and Rick Dempsey (.666 OPS) playing nearly everyday, and were around a league average offense every year, and made the playoffs nearly every year.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Stubbs is the best bet in CF right now because:

    1. Dickerson has a very spotty injury history (knee, achilles, ankle, shoulder, concussion).
    2. Heisey has not played at the major league level.
    3. Stubbs has OPS'd .760 in his first 200 major league PAs and played excellent defense.

    If there's one guy to trade at this point, it's Dickerson, given his age and health history. I'm not advocating they trade him, but, given the litany of injuries he's had, I think he carries the biggest risk.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  11. #100
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Off the top of my head, outfielders used by the Cincinnati Reds this season. Darnell McDonald, Jay Bruce, Wily Taveras, Drew Stubbs, Chris Dickerson, Lance Nix, Jonny Gomes, Balentine, Drew Sutton (?).

    My point is you need solid depth in the outfield when you consider injuries. Does anyone know the average number of starts a 4th outfielder gets over the course of a season. I think the Reds organization thinks Stubbs is the CF of the future, but that doesn't mean Dickerson doesn't have value. If the Reds have Dickerson as a 4th outfielder, that means the likes of WT and Darnell McDonald aren't getting substantial at bats through the course of the season. If a guy like Heisey is the next man up from AAA, that means a guy like Darnell McDonald doesn't catch on with this organization.

    If the Reds can avoid giving substantial at bats to the worst 10% in baseball then they are a better team. If the Reds can start the season with an outfield of Stubbs, Bruce, Gomes, Dickerson, and Balentine, with Heisey the next man up, they are a better team than having to play Taveras and McDonald.

  12. #101
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    One player is never the problem. One player only represents 11% of an offense per game, much less over the whole season. If there is a decent lineup around him, he really shouldn't drag them down that much. I think it was all the things you mentioned happening at the same time.

    Sometimes not even two is a problem. The Orioles in the 70's had Mark Belanger (.580 OPS) and Rick Dempsey (.666 OPS) playing nearly everyday, and were around a league average offense every year, and made the playoffs nearly every year.
    Earl Weaver loved him some Mark Belanger.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Those Orioles had Jim Palmer, Mike Cuellar, Mike Flanagan, Scott McGregor, Dave McNally, and Dennis Martinez in the rotations.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    On what planet is Dickerson a marginal CF, b/c it sure as heck isn't Earth.

    Right now Chris Dickerson is our best proven CF, and our best option to bat leadoff.
    Marginal as a fielder in CF.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    I can't be the only one thinking that hoping that Stubbs repeats what he did in very limited time over the full course of being the everyday CF in 2010 is an extremely short-sighted way to enter 2010, can I?
    You may not be the only one thinking it, but you seem to be the only one who's squeezing his knees in glee at the very thought of Stubbs stumbling next year.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs for CF in '10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    On what planet is Dickerson a marginal CF, b/c it sure as heck isn't Earth.

    Right now Chris Dickerson is our best proven CF, and our best option to bat leadoff.
    I don't think I would give either Stubbs or Dickerson "proven" in a good sense.

    I don't know why the reds pushed Chris Dickerson off centerfield when Jay Bruce got to Louisville, but they did. Since then they have been loath to play him there. I never saw any reason to it, but I would assume somebody in the reds organization didn't think he could play there.

    Dickerson has had trouble staying healthy as a major league player. Between that and the age, if it were me making the decisions, Drew Stubbs would be the centerfielder.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010


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