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Thread: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardba...x7oPrhkJKc4vuL


    2. Here is what I took from the statements of Wilpon and Minaya about offseason procurements: They will look into free agency, but they are going to see if there are deals (steals?) in the trade market by teams looking to shed payroll in this financially troublesome times. In other words, rather than give up a second-round pick if they were to sign a Type-A free agent or getting into bidding wars for players, the Mets will see if they can give up middling prospects for an overpriced commodity.
    I know they have a closer, but I would take less than middling prospects for Cordero, and I would take better than middling prospects for Arroyo, if they picked up their entire contracts.

    I would give them Taveras if they took him and his entire contract.
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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    If the Reds can shed 100% of Cordero's contract, I'd honestly take anything they wanted to offer in return.

    Despite his price, I think the Reds need to keep Arroyo. If they dealt him, they'd have to pay someone to pitch his innings anyway PLUS get another TOR starter anyway. I'm content with the devil I know in this case.
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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    I wouldn't trade them Arroyo, because they won't give you anything. If the Reds want to be successful in 2010, they need Bronson. Would probably do the same for CoCo. Neither are a long term detriment to the organization, and will be vital to any scrappy run to contention that could possibly happen next season.

    Those contracts aren't the same as they were two years ago. Personally, I see no problem having overpriced players that perform well on the team in the short term. The concerns when the deals were signed were legit, but the truth is, right now the money paid to those players isn't hurting the team. The youth movement (Votto, Cueto, Volquez, Bruce, Bailey...) is still a year or two away from arbitration raises, and they wouldn't go out and sign big name, team changing FAs if those contracts were gone anyway.
    Last edited by guttle11; 10-06-2009 at 03:16 PM.
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    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    Exactly what Caveat said....

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    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    They have a lot of money tied up in KRod and Putz. They also see Parnell as a back of the bullpen-type guy. The Mets are looking primarily for bats at 1B, LF and C. On the pitching side, they're going to focus on Halladay.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

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    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    15 wins, 220 innings, sub 4 era. Bronson's contract may pay him a bit much, but its not a bad contract for the production and consistency he gives.
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    I wouldn't trade them Arroyo, because they won't give you anything. If the Reds want to be successful in 2010, they need Bronson. Would probably do the same for CoCo. Neither are a long term detriment to the organization, and will be vital to any scrappy run to contention that could possibly happen next season.

    Those contracts aren't the same as they were two years ago. Personally, I see no problem having overpriced players that perform well on the team in the short term. The concerns when the deals were signed were legit, but the truth is, right now the money paid to those players isn't hurting the team. The youth movement (Votto, Cueto, Volquez, Bruce, Bailey...) is still a year or two away from arbitration raises, and they wouldn't go out and sign big name, team changing FAs if those contracts were gone anyway.
    I agree. I might be talked into Cordero, but we'd be wailing for a reliable closer by May. The guy I'd probably be most willing to send to the Mets is Harang. I'm not saying I'd be in a hurry to trade him, but if we're desperate to move a big contract, he would be right there with Cordero as my top choices. And I'm fairly sure we'd struggle to replace either guy on the field.

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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    I really don't see the point in giving away Coco or Arroyo for nothing at this stage.

    Basically, it looks like the Mets are hoping to trade for someone like Arroyo and only give up a Tim Hummel type player in return. I fail to see how that helps the Reds.

    I'd rather take my chances that maybe Walt can find a better SS on the cheap, and maybe the OF comes together next year. Is that going to be good enough to win the division? Maybe not, but it will make things interesting. Far more interesting than dumping Arroyo and Cordero for nothing but salary relief.. Think about it, if the Mets think Arroyo at this price is a better value than anything on the open market, what good is payflex going to do us? Plus, we have a lot of difficulty attracting FAs already. Dumping Arroyo and Cordero certainly isn't going to make Cincy more attractive to the better FAs who have other options.
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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    I wouldn't trade them Arroyo, because they won't give you anything. If the Reds want to be successful in 2010, they need Bronson. Would probably do the same for CoCo. Neither are a long term detriment to the organization, and will be vital to any scrappy run to contention that could possibly happen next season..
    CoCo is a nice thing to have, but if the Reds want to compete in 2010 or 2011, they're going to need to add a TOR arm. Period, end of story. Walt's #1 goal from here until opening day should be to either convince management to open the wallet for a big arm or shed enough payroll to fit a big arm onto the books. The farm system isn't going to produce one anytime soon (possibly not until Leake comes through in a year or two), so he'll have to go somewhere and get one.

    If you can get a team to take Cordero's money off the books, some of Harang's money off the books and some of Taveras' money off the books, you can free the payroll space to add a good pitcher to the mix.

    That's job #1. Fix the pitching. The defense is, as of right now, extremely strong around the diamond. The hitting is OK, and you can find instant offense a lot of different places. Fix the pitching, and you can talk about playing meaningful games in August.
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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    I think Coco has earned his salary. I'm not anxious to give him away. Top of rotation starters don't grow on trees. It's not so easy to say dump Coco and sign Lincecum or Greinke

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    At this point, I'll also third what Caveat said. I still feel the same about Arroyo as I did three months ago, before this season, last season, before last season, etc. When I say that, I mean both the good and bad attributes. But at this juncture, while I think he's slightly overpaid, I don't see any chances of getting much in return for him and accordingly, the Reds are better off holding on to him in that scenario. Despite lacking a true top of the rotation starter for next year, the Reds' staff is going to be a lot better than most (potentially). The emergence of Homer Bailey is giving them a pretty good staff, assuming he picks up where he left off this year.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    Cordero's contract is not even close to the Reds' biggest problem.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    CoCo is a nice thing to have, but if the Reds want to compete in 2010 or 2011, they're going to need to add a TOR arm. Period, end of story. Walt's #1 goal from here until opening day should be to either convince management to open the wallet for a big arm or shed enough payroll to fit a big arm onto the books. The farm system isn't going to produce one anytime soon (possibly not until Leake comes through in a year or two), so he'll have to go somewhere and get one.

    If you can get a team to take Cordero's money off the books, some of Harang's money off the books and some of Taveras' money off the books, you can free the payroll space to add a good pitcher to the mix.

    That's job #1. Fix the pitching. The defense is, as of right now, extremely strong around the diamond. The hitting is OK, and you can find instant offense a lot of different places. Fix the pitching, and you can talk about playing meaningful games in August.
    I agree with the principal, but the reality is different. Now, if they can somehow package Alonso and some others to add a TOR starter and not give up any of the core...I'm all for doing it and dumping CoCo to make it work financially.

    But dumping CoCo to sign a TOP pitcher isn't realistic. The Reds don't sit high enough in the the pecking order, and won't have the money to win the bidding war if they actually did get a spot at the table.

    Unfortunately, the Reds have to develop TOR starters from within, and they don't have that right now. Guys like CoCo and Arroyo, already on the roster, are about as good as they can hope for. No reason to dump their short term contracts for the sake of clearing payroll. You dump bad contracts next offseason to pay for the youngins' raises.
    Last edited by guttle11; 10-06-2009 at 04:04 PM.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think Coco has earned his salary. I'm not anxious to give him away. Top of rotation starters don't grow on trees. It's not so easy to say dump Coco and sign Lincecum or Greinke
    Thank You you couldn't of said it better.If this team wants to finish over 500 next year dump those guys and see what happens.
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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Mets Looking For Bad Contracts: Arroyo? Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    Unfortunately, the Reds have to develop TOR starters from within, and they don't have that right now. Guys like CoCo and Arroyo, already on the roster, are about as good as they can hope for. No reason to dump their short term contracts for the sake of clearing payroll. You dump bad contracts next offseason to pay for the youngins' raises.

    I disagree. If Homer doesn't look like a TOR starter in the making then I don't know what one looks like


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