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Thread: In house only

  1. #1
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    In house only

    Assess the Reds needs/question marks for 2010, then fill those positions with players under the Reds' control or in the system. Any player that finished the year employed by the Reds is eligible.

    I see the needs as, and in no particular order, SS, CF, LF, 5th starter and at least 1 bullpen spot.

    My take...

    SS - Janish's to lose, but Cozart could impress out of ST. no one else in the system can defend like Janish. He needs to bat 8th.

    CF - Stubbs made a strong case to be considered, Dickerson needs to be healthy. Why did he miss the last part of the season?

    LF - A bat is needed here, and Gomes certainly made a case to be that bat. However after thinking about it for a while, I'd let him walk. Francisco will likely play winter ball, and the Reds can request that he plays LF. He dominated last year, and I believe he's headed to the instructional league for more LF training. He's a darkhorse, but he's got a ton of potential. I give him every opportunity to win the job in ST, Wlad becomes my 4th OF/backup plan at LF.

    5th SP - Matt Maloney certainly made a case for himself. Lehr doesn't have the stuff to get big league hitters out, but he might make a fine pitching coach, especially if Powers gets Pole's job. Slot Leht in as the Dayton pitching coach if he's ready for that part of his career to start and promote from within. LeCure has really disappointed me, as I thought he was a steal in the draft. Ramirez didn't follow up on his great 2008. Viola should have stayed a starter. I think he's much better as a starter, better than Maloney IMO.

    Bullpen - Burton and Rhodes. Will Rhodes be back? Can Burton stay healthy? I think Owings is the new long man in the pen. Viola is probably the second LH to DRH if Rhodes is gone. One of Burton or Fisher is back in AAA or traded.

    Again, this is just my opinion on a scenario where the Reds seek no players outside the organization. Just a fun little exercise.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Assess the Reds needs/question marks for 2010, then fill those positions with players under the Reds' control or in the system. Any player that finished the year employed by the Reds is eligible.

    I see the needs as, and in no particular order, SS, CF, LF, 5th starter and at least 1 bullpen spot.

    My take...

    SS - Janish's to lose, but Cozart could impress out of ST. no one else in the system can defend like Janish. He needs to bat 8th.

    CF - Stubbs made a strong case to be considered, Dickerson needs to be healthy. Why did he miss the last part of the season?

    LF - A bat is needed here, and Gomes certainly made a case to be that bat. However after thinking about it for a while, I'd let him walk. Francisco will likely play winter ball, and the Reds can request that he plays LF. He dominated last year, and I believe he's headed to the instructional league for more LF training. He's a darkhorse, but he's got a ton of potential. I give him every opportunity to win the job in ST, Wlad becomes my 4th OF/backup plan at LF.

    5th SP - Matt Maloney certainly made a case for himself. Lehr doesn't have the stuff to get big league hitters out, but he might make a fine pitching coach, especially if Powers gets Pole's job. Slot Leht in as the Dayton pitching coach if he's ready for that part of his career to start and promote from within. LeCure has really disappointed me, as I thought he was a steal in the draft. Ramirez didn't follow up on his great 2008. Viola should have stayed a starter. I think he's much better as a starter, better than Maloney IMO.

    Bullpen - Burton and Rhodes. Will Rhodes be back? Can Burton stay healthy? I think Owings is the new long man in the pen. Viola is probably the second LH to DRH if Rhodes is gone. One of Burton or Fisher is back in AAA or traded.

    Again, this is just my opinion on a scenario where the Reds seek no players outside the organization. Just a fun little exercise.
    I'm not sure how CF or LF could be considered a need. I don't argue both positions couldn't possibly find even better options, but both positions could have above-average production next year with players there currently. A Dickerson-Gomes platoon in left would be above-average combining offense and defense overall. Drew Stubbs, even if he dips to slightly below average offensively (which in 200 PA's this year he was not for his position), is still an above average player overall. I don't consider those needs.

    As far as Gomes specifically, I don't know why we'd let someone walk like that. He will cost, probably, no more than $2 to $2.5 mil. Even assuming an average or slightly below average OBP, his slugging alone makes him a great value either as a starter or platoon guy. That's the kind of value teams with limited financial flexibility should be seeking.

    I won't argue catcher and shortstop could stand to see some upgrades. I'm not as worried about catcher simply because Hanigan has been so good defensively, and it's rare to get a ton more offensive production, the Reds would not be handicapped to use him as their main option. But shortstop could stand to upgrade significantly on offense without sacrificing too much defense.

    I'm not worried about 5th starter. Throw out a replacement level pitcher (i.e. Maloney or Owings) as I don't think the money it would take to find an upgrade would be worth the limited productive about replacement you could find.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #3
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    Well I stated needs/question marks. Late season callups are always question marks going into the next season. Stubbs is in no different a position as Dickerson was at the end of 2008.

    Gomes is a question mark as he has had health issues in the past. He might not cost much, and even if healthy, he's a little OBP challenged on a team filled with OBP questions. (Bruce, Stubbs, BP, Janish if he's the SS.)
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #4
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Well I stated needs/question marks. Late season callups are always question marks going into the next season. Stubbs is in no different a position as Dickerson was at the end of 2008.

    Gomes is a question mark as he has had health issues in the past. He might not cost much, and even if healthy, he's a little OBP challenged on a team filled with OBP questions. (Bruce, Stubbs, BP, Janish if he's the SS.)
    I think I overlooked that first part of your post.

    I definitely think Gomes could still be considered a question mark. It still remains to be seen if he can sustain the production he put up this year. Likewise, we don't know how good Stubbs will be offensively. All I'm saying is that we know enough about them, I think, that overall they will provide at least average production at their positions.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Member schroomytunes's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    Well if we are talking in house only areas of need I rate them as:

    1) LF
    2) C
    3)5th starter
    4) SS
    5) Bench depth


    1) LF- we simply must offer Gomes arb! He performed great this year and if he is used correctly I see him putting up similiar numbers in 10. The question is who is that other guy to platoon with him? I am not sold on Dickerson, and do not want to enter without a viable partner.

    2) C- Hanigan had a solid year behind the plate, but he simply is not a run producer, he is best used as a #2, we have no one in the system to platoon with him, so I offer Ramon Hernandez a lower deal to return.

    3) 5th Starter- until Edinson returns we must look for a guy to eat @ 150 innings 20-24 starts. We have some guys in the system capable Maloney, Owings, Wood, but they may be best used in long relief roles and in Woods case is he ready? I say its Maloney's to lose.

    4) SS- alot of teams dont have that true slugger at SS, but if Janish is used as a #8 hitter and plays superior defense than I'm ok here, but we need to have 1 of Valaika/ Cozart ready to contribute as a bench guy.

    5) Bench- I like that in 09 we got a good look at some AAA guys, and liked what I saw out of Stubbs,and Francisco, but we are void of offensive production after those 2! Rosales, Sutton, McD, Tatum are all career AAA guys and an upgrade is needed here.

    My 2010 Reds are:
    OF-Bruce, Stubbs, GOMES, Taveras, Balentien
    INF-Votto,Phillips,Janish,Rolen
    C-Hanigan, R.Hernandez

    BP- COCO,Masset,Rhodes,Burton,Fisher,Owings,Herrera
    SP-Arroyo,Bailey,Cueto,Harang,Maloney

    I really dont see any in house canidates ready for the 2b/ss/3b backup or the 1b/of backup job to start in 2010!

  7. #6
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    CF: Dickerson/Stubbs platoon
    5th starter: Maloney
    LF: Dorn/Gomes
    SS: Janish

    How do I feel about those options? I'm very happy with that CF, pretty comfortable with that 5th SP, not thrilled with that LF, and I absolutely despise that solution at SS.

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    Re: In house only

    CF: The platoon of Dickerson and Stubbs would make sense, though Stubbs should see more at-bats. Both are great defensively, especially Stubbs. As a third CF, Heisey is an outstanding luxury to have.

    5th starter: I'm guessing, in-house, Maloney with an outside shot for Lehr. None of them are good choices, though Owings wouldn't be a bad choice. Again. Shrug. Meh.

    LF: Gomes and Dorn would be an outstanding platoon, capable of 30 homers and 100 RBI. Too, Dorn can play 1B.

    SS: If I'm the GM, Phillips is moving to shortstop tomorrow and Frazier becomes my 2B. But Jocketty's not moving Phillips, IMO. So I'd either stick with Janish (who can't hit), gamble on Frazier or Sutton (who can't field), or hope either Cozart or Valaika destroys Spring Training pitching. If not moving Phillips, I'd probably gamble with Valaika, but I prefer someone who can hit. (And, aside from the crappy beginning to his AAA season, he looked much improved in August and September.)
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  9. #8
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Dickerson needs to be healthy. Why did he miss the last part of the season?
    Severely sprained ankle IIRC
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  10. #9
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Severely sprained ankle IIRC
    It came from his inability to dive back into first on pickoffs. The equivalent of Zoolander not being able to turn left.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  11. #10
    Member tripleaaaron's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    My favorite in-house lineup would be:
    CF Stubbs/Dickerson
    2B Todd Frazier
    1B Joey Votto
    3B Scott Rolen
    RF Jay Bruce
    LF Jonny Gomes
    SS Brandon Phillips
    C Ryan Hanigan
    P pitcher
    Janish backs up both infield positions and Francisco backs up the corners and Left.
    Midseason, insert votto in left and alonso at first with Heisey coming up to supplant anyone struggling or injured.

    But its not going to happen. We can only hope for a few upgrades, particularly at Short, catcher and starting pitching. I think we will probably only see a few dumpster dives and hopefully they work out.
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  12. #11
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    In house moves:

    Cut Willy T....send a message that despite the mistake, it's not about the money.



    My thoughts, in no particular order...

    position
    1B - Alonzo
    2B - Phillips
    SS - Janish
    3B - Rolen
    C - Hannigan
    LF - Votto
    CF - Stubbs
    RF - Bruce

    SP
    Cueto
    Bailey
    Arroyo
    Maloney
    Harang

    RP
    Cordero
    Burton
    Massett
    Owings
    Wells
    DRH

    Bench
    Gomes
    Francisco
    Tatum
    Balentin
    Frazier

    I'm a player short, so another position player (Dickerson?) or a pitcher that "surprises" people...


    Sure, why not?
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 10-07-2009 at 02:27 AM.

  13. #12
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    If its 100% in house it may smell like an outhouse, but if Votto repeats and Bruce joins him and Bailey and Cueto step up, they'll be pretty good as is (a lot of ifs, but hasn't that really what we've been saying since mid 2007 anyway?):


    Against RHP

    CF Dickerson/Stubbs (Not a straight platoon. Stubbs plays some against RHP)
    3B Rolen
    1B Votto
    RF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    LF Francisco/Gomes (Not a straight platoon. Gomes plays some against RHP)
    C Hanigan/Denove
    SS Janish/Sutton (Mostly Janish)

    Against LHP

    CF Stubbs
    3B Rolen
    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    LF Gomes
    RF Bruce/Balentien (Balentien only against certain tough LHP)
    C Hanigan/Denove
    SS Janish/Sutton (Mostly Janish)

    SP1 Bailey
    SP2 Cueto
    SP3 Arroyo
    SP4 Harang
    SP5 Maloney
    SW Owings
    LHR Herrera
    RHR Ramirez
    LHR Rhodes
    RHR Burton
    SU Masset
    CL Cordero

    DL Volquez, Bray


    AAA Depth

    SP Wood, Lecure, Jukich, Klinker, Smith
    RP Ondrusek, Viola, Fisher, Valiquette, Krebs, Del Rosario, Watson
    IF Alonso, Valaika, Cozart, Rosales
    OF Dorn, Heisey, Frazier
    C Tatum, Castillo

    I'm not a big Castillo fan, but I could see him as the second catcher with Denove in AAA. Besides Bruce stepping up, the big power infusion comes from Francisco and Gomes manning LF all year instead of a mamby, pamby CF platoon playing LF like started out in 2009. And, of course, the absence of one horrible player in CF should do wonders. I like Rolen in the 2 hole. Wish the Reds would do that. SS could be a problem all year, but Sutton may provide a lift once in a while. As long as he's not out there too much, it won't do cumulative long-term damage to the staff. I doubt I'd play him more than a couple days in a row out there.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #13
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: In house only

    I'd never really considered Rolen in the 2 slot. That's kind of interesting. Anything that pushes Hanigan/Janish out of the top of the lineup is fine with me. I like both those guys, but their bats simply HAVE to be at the bottom of the order.

    I'm not familiar at all with Denove. Glove or bat guy? If he were both, I'm assuming I would've heard about him.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG


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