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Thread: Just Heard on ESPN Radio.

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  1. #1
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Oh boy, 2 minor league 5-tooled outfielers, no doubt.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  2. #2
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    Look, all I'm saying is that when you hear about the 2B's supposedly "on the block" - guys like Vidro, possibly Castillo, possibly Giles. I've even heard that the Cards are taking offers for Vina. There are others. Add the FA 2B's out there, and suddenly it's easy to see why Walker brought in no more than he did.

    Maybe it was bad timing. But as several of you have pointed out, it is early. I think the time to be critical is on August 1st, when you finally see how things are going to pan out.

    It would have been great to land Sanchez and/or Fossum in exchane for Walker. But if I'm the Red Sox, I save those guys for the deal that lands me a Castillo or a Vidro. But if I have to turn around and include in a trade, guys like Edward Encarnacion and Bobby Bashan, in order to land Javier Vazquez and Vidro, I'll settle for Blanco and Thigpen in exchange for Todd Walker.

    I still think that there is a trade for a 2B coming. It may not happen this week, but I think it will happen before Spring Training opens.

    Now, if we're just clearing room so Juan Castro can play everyday, now you got a right to be fightin' mad!:mad: :mad: :mad:
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    The Todd Walker trade IS as a salary dump and the Reds DID NOT receive any particularly enticing prospects in return. Even if Luis Castillo ends up in town (making me one happy camper), the Reds still failed to get much of anything in return for a productive everyday 2B.
    Has it been confirmed that Blanco and Thigpen are, in fact, the two minor leaguers? As far as I know, those names are just rumors - thrown out by Peter Gammons.

    Not every team is in the market for a productive every day 2B. If there are only three teams out there in the market for Walker's services, and the Red Sox offered the BEST deal of the three, does JimBo take what he can get, or hold out until those three teams make other deals - thereby dropping Walker's trade value even more? It's great to "hold out for more" until the other team drops interest in your guy because they can get as good or better deal somewhere else.

    And maybe we are simply over-estimating what kind of trade value our players have.
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    kinda like JB was smart enough to know the rotation was lousy going into the 2002 season?
    I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

    But as it turned out, the 2002 pitching rotation was the least of the Reds' worries. You cannot blame the rotation for what went wrong in 2002. Seems to me Bowden was smart enough to see that the rotation was better than any of us gave credit for. If the hitting and the bullpen had held up, the Reds would have made the post-season.
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  5. #5
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    guernsey's right (as usual! )

    We don't need 25 different threads on this trade. I was thinking earlier how great it was that there are only a minimum of threads on this subject. You don't have to read thru the entire thread every time just to see what the last poster had to say.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

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    I'd like to know where you get this optimism from. The entire off season has been nothing but negatives from the illustrious front office. NOT ONE positive thing came from them to make us look forward to the team in the new stadium. So now when they start acting like they said they would, "Gotta lower that payroll" now its some first step of a larger plan. Dont misunderstand me, I am normally quite optimistic myself and will gladly eat crow and say how wrong I am if in fact I am proven so. But until then, I have a bad feeling about this offseason and the Reds have done nothing but feed it.
    BRO, what is it EXACTLY that you want the Reds to do?

    Don't tell me what should have been done last year. What do you want them to do NOW?

    Everytime somebody from the FO opens their mouth, they are accused of lying. They could take out a full page ad in the newspaper and annouce that their payroll will be $60 million. But nobody'd believe them. What exactly do you want them to do?

    Do you want them to get Bartolo Colon? Problem is, no one wants to trade any Reds player that has any trade value because it will only be a salary dump. After Ken Griffey, there ain't NO ONE on this team valuable enough to fetch Colon. Trading Castro and Stinnet isn't going to land the type of talent that will put the Reds over the top.

    The Reds have not pursued anyone in the free agent market. Which, based on the players in the free agent pool, that seem like a wise course of action to me. Why OVERPAY someone that other teams don't even feel is worth the expense? Greg Maddox is the only player out there worth looking at, but I still don't think he's worth th $12-$15 million per year he's asking. Why waste money on an over-priced free agent just to make some kind of statement to your fans?

    You've *HEARD* that the Reds are cutting payroll. Yet every indication I've seen is that the Reds payroll will be around $55 million for 2003. John Allen, this morning in the Cincy Enquirer, thinks that payroll will probably exceed $55. How can you "cut" payroll and raise it at the same time? If you are worried about the "silence" surrounding the Reds' FO, this off-season, well ... after the Junior fiasco, perhaps they're better off keeping quiet. And if you are thinking about the Junior non-trade story, the Reds are idiots for not at least entertaining trade offers. If we're going to start judging these guys on the trades that didn't happen, then there's no way they are going to please anyone. Unfortunately, ANY move the Reds make , where we don't receive as neutral or additional payroll in return, is going to be viewed as a dump.

    Do I think there needs to be changes in the Reds front office? Absolutely. I think JimBo has lost some of his "magic touch" if he even had it to begin with. Do I think a Junior for Nevin deal was stupid? Absolutley. (Although I'm not sure Nevin wouldn't have been traded before he ever put on a Reds uniform).

    But, if the RIGHT deal came up for Junior, that would free enough payroll to go out and bring in Jose Vidro, Javier Vazquez, and Carlos Beltran - all under the $55 million payroll, I'd help Junior pack his bags and take him to the airport.

    You don't see why I am so optimistic. It's not that I'm optimistic as much as I'm patient - willing to wait and get the whole picture before I start hollering that "the sky is falling." I can't for the life of me see why many folks are so negative based on three or four alleged trades that DIDN'T happen, a table clearing trade that DID happen, and rumors of cost-cutting that the $55 million budget doesn't support. Folks are throwing in the towel when they haven't seen the finished product yet.

    I'm just saying let's ignore all the rumors and wait and see how it plays all out by Opening Day and the July 31 trading deadline. Then you can throw cold water on my parade all you want.
    Last edited by MikeS21; 12-13-2002 at 02:11 PM.
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    Call me jaded or whatever, but I think this is just what it appears to be. A salary dump. The savings for the trades this winter (and they will All result in savings, will go to Mr Lindners pocket. I too liked Todd Walker and am frustrated that we had to trade him so Lindner could profit MORE.
    this FO has shown nothing to make any of us think they're going to pull off a trade that will push their budget to the limit.
    In order to add quality talent, the Reds have to clear roster space and payroll room. Everyone has been screaming for a leadoff hitter for the last two years. Where do you expect him to play? Since trading Junior or Casey is a salary dump, that means your three OF positions and 1B are set. Larkin and ABoone aren't going anywhere. And very few catchers make good lead-off hitters. That leaves 2B. But if you don't trade Todd Walker, where does you lead-off hitter play, and how is this team different from last year? You all complain cause they don't do anything and then you complain when they do.

    Tood Walker was a good player. He played hard and hustled. But if the Reds are EVER going to get a lead-off hitter, Walker would have been the one to replace.

    There are NO free agents on the market worth WASTING money over. Quit accusing Lindner of lining his pockets because he hasn't overpaid for some high-priced, over-the-hill free agent.

    Folks, WAIT until Opening Day before you assemble the lynch mob. You'll feel pretty stupid if your Opening Day 2B is Castillo or Vidro or someone like that. But you got to trade Walker before you can plug in a Vidro or Castillo, or whoever. JimBo is smart enough to know that there is a gaping hole at 2B that Larson or Larkin isn't going to fill. If he can get a decent 2B, then even if Gookie Dawkins or Ranier Olmedo eventually takes over at SS, the line-up won't be horrible.

    Krusty and other are right. This was the FIRST of several moves. Don't get antsy. You may see a couple more moves like this (White/Sullivan) before the deck is cleared for the "good" trades.
    Last edited by MikeS21; 12-13-2002 at 10:22 AM.
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  8. #8
    Member 919191's Avatar
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    Anyone recall some talk a while back about making Larue a second baseman? I really don't think that is the plan, but I do seem to recall hearing that.

  9. #9
    Member 919191's Avatar
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    Pete was a second baseman. Maybe if he is reinstated....

  10. #10
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    http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1212/1475990.html
    "ESPN's Peter Gammons reported Thursday that the players to be named are third baseman Tony Blanco and RHP Josh Thigpen"

    Josh Thigpen
    6-6 4.20 A ball

    http://augustachronicle.com/stories/...gja_game.shtml

    We've seen Blanco and Walker's stats.

    I like Blanco's upside and this kid looks OK, but without Sanchez back, I don't like it. BUT, I will give the Reds some time. This move obviously precludes others.

    we'll see come opening day what this team looks like.

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    Only reason you don't announce now is because at least one of these guys is on the 28 man roster for Boston. Freddy sanchez becomes an obvious candidate.

    Sanchez is an unproven commodity. Walker is proven, solid and cheap for Boston.

    Sanchez and Blanco for Walker would make complete sense and be a good deal for both teams. Sanchez and Fossum for Walker would be a fleecing. Anything else, we will see.

  12. #12
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    From Rotoworld:

    Todd Walker - 2B - Cincinnati Reds Dec 12

    ESPN.com is reporting that the Red Sox have acquired Todd Walker from the Reds for two minor leaguers. This looks more like a Dan Duquette move than something we'd expect out of Theo Epstein. Why acquire Todd Walker when Frank Catalanotto might become a free agent next week? Why acquire Todd Walker when Freddy Sanchez will be 90 percent of the player for 10 percent of the price?
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  13. #13
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    EdE was playing SS for Dayton at the end of last season, but most folks don't think that will be his position long term.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by creek14
    Oh boy, 2 minor league 5-tooled outfielers, no doubt.
    Nah, it'll be two pitchers who JimBo projects to be 12-15 game winners (like Ed Yarnall & Brian Reith).
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  15. #15
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    How 'bout Freddy Sanchez? Probably not. The BoSox are probably getting Todd to keep the position warm for Freddy in '04.

    4. Freddy Sanchez, ss/2b

    Age: 24. B-T: R-R. Ht.: 5-11. Wt.: 185. Drafted: Oklahoma City, 2000 (11th round). Signed by: Ernie Jacobs.

    Background: After leading all minor league shortstops with a .334 average in 2001, Sanchez proved that performance was no fluke. He made the Double-A Eastern League all-star team, was Triple-A Pawtucketís player of the year and drilled a two-run single in his first big league at-bat.

    Strengths: Sanchez has excellent hand-eye coordination and the ability to make consistent line-drive contact and hit for gap power. His instincts enhance his physical skills at the plate, on the bases and in the field. He has a solid average arm at shortstop and reads balls well off the bat.

    Weaknesses: The knock on Sanchez always has been that he lacks pure shortstop range, though thatís a moot point with Garciaparra in Boston. The Red Sox believe Sanchez could play short if needed. After making strides with his selectivity in Double-A, he regressed in Triple-A and the majors.

    The Future: A longshot to win Bostonís second-base job in spring training 2002, Sanchez is a frontrunner to become the starter in 2003. Heís playing second base in Mexico this offseason to help his cause.
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing


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