kinda like JB was smart enough to know the rotation was lousy going into the 2002 season?
if we do land a castillo or vidro, stupidity is the last thing I will feel. But like I inferred, I'll believe it when I see it.
kinda like JB was smart enough to know the rotation was lousy going into the 2002 season?
if we do land a castillo or vidro, stupidity is the last thing I will feel. But like I inferred, I'll believe it when I see it.
guernsey's right (as usual!)
We don't need 25 different threads on this trade. I was thinking earlier how great it was that there are only a minimum of threads on this subject. You don't have to read thru the entire thread every time just to see what the last poster had to say.
“I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane
“We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn
I am having a hard time keeping up and finding out who is responding to who.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here.kinda like JB was smart enough to know the rotation was lousy going into the 2002 season?
But as it turned out, the 2002 pitching rotation was the least of the Reds' worries. You cannot blame the rotation for what went wrong in 2002. Seems to me Bowden was smart enough to see that the rotation was better than any of us gave credit for. If the hitting and the bullpen had held up, the Reds would have made the post-season.
“I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane
“We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn
my point was, going into the season, the 2002 rotation was widely regarded as the worst in the league and JB was unable to do a thing about it. Why? For the same reasons that he faces this season - his hands are tied due to financial constraints from the brass.
I like JB and agree he's smart - it's just sometimes he's not able to do what he thinks is needed.
Mike, while you're probably right that the Reds will make a number of moves in the coming days, weeks and months, that doesn't change the basics of this deal.
The Todd Walker trade IS as a salary dump and the Reds DID NOT receive any particularly enticing prospects in return. Even if Luis Castillo ends up in town (making me one happy camper), the Reds still failed to get much of anything in return for a productive everyday 2B.
I do think that the Reds could have done much better in this deal, even though it was a salary dump. How many LH good offensive 2nd basemen are there? Not many. The Red Sox needed a LH bat, and needed help at 2B. They got both of them. The Reds needed advanced prospects. They didn't get any.
'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
-Snoop on his retirement
Your Mom is happy.
were you really expecting top notch prospects for Todd Walker. Agreed that TW is a solid 2b, but the reality is he does nothing spectacular that made woo another GM into letting go top flight talent.
Again, it was pure salary dump.
Has it been confirmed that Blanco and Thigpen are, in fact, the two minor leaguers? As far as I know, those names are just rumors - thrown out by Peter Gammons.The Todd Walker trade IS as a salary dump and the Reds DID NOT receive any particularly enticing prospects in return. Even if Luis Castillo ends up in town (making me one happy camper), the Reds still failed to get much of anything in return for a productive everyday 2B.
Not every team is in the market for a productive every day 2B. If there are only three teams out there in the market for Walker's services, and the Red Sox offered the BEST deal of the three, does JimBo take what he can get, or hold out until those three teams make other deals - thereby dropping Walker's trade value even more? It's great to "hold out for more" until the other team drops interest in your guy because they can get as good or better deal somewhere else.
And maybe we are simply over-estimating what kind of trade value our players have.
“I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane
“We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn
I was not expecting top flight prospects, but one of the players to be a steady player from AA in a position of weakness in this organization, instead of two from A that have possible high ceilings, but more probable busts would have been nice. Again, I am not against this trade, as I do feel it accomplished it's goal, and that was to dump salary. Both of the prospects the Reds got are either boom or bust. Why not hedge the odds a little and get a solid, if not spectacular prospect that is maybe 1 or 2 years away at a position that we are weak at.....and I don't think 3B is one of those positions.Originally posted by OldXOhio
were you really expecting top notch prospects for Todd Walker. Agreed that TW is a solid 2b, but the reality is he does nothing spectacular that made woo another GM into letting go top flight talent.
Again, it was pure salary dump.
Last edited by Red Leader; 12-13-2002 at 11:20 AM.
'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
-Snoop on his retirement
Your Mom is happy.
McCoy had the same names in his article this morning, and Baseball America worate their trade analysis using those two guys as coming to the Reds.Has it been confirmed that Blanco and Thigpen are, in fact, the two minor leaguers? As far as I know, those names are just rumors - thrown out by Peter Gammons.
"People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing
sorry, I hit quote instead of edit.
'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
-Snoop on his retirement
Your Mom is happy.
Blanco is not worth a thing. A player that walks 5 times in a season is never gonna make it to the major league level. Throw in the fact that he's a 3rd baseman...he'll never hit enough to make it. My guess is in the history of baseball there have been maybe 5 guys who had his numbers and made it to the bigs. They were probably all shortstops.
Basically they picked up the 3rd base version of Dane Sardhina.
Bowden is always suckered by the tools,
Thigpen may turn into something 5 years from now.
It was a salary dump.
Thigpen: fastball and curve, needs to learn a changeup...hook him up with Chris Reitsma
Blanco: batspeed and no plate discipline = a Bowden "special" Epstein understands the importance of OBA, I don't know if JimBo will ever "get it"
Fortunately, the Reds already have a high-OBA leadoff hitter for 2003, his name is Austin Kearns. Hopefully Bob Boone will see the light
Never overlook the obvious
Mike, I've been reading Gammons for 20 years and I've never known him to miss when it comes to naming PTBNLs in a deal (especially one concerning the Red Sox).
As for me possibly overvaluing Walker, I'm not asking for the moon here. All I really wanted was one B prospect from the high minors. Even if there's only one team interested in a given players, that's a reasonable return.
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