Turn Off Ads?
Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 789101112 LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 179

Thread: Just Heard on ESPN Radio.

  1. #151
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Greenville, ohio
    Posts
    497
    Wish they would have kept Sexton for a couple of reasons:

    1. He's a good alternative after a trade like this. And even if he didn't start -he'd be there in case of injury. His MLE's aren't too bad and his salary is low. He's always had a good OBP.


    2. He's been a good organizational soldier and I think it's important to give those guys a chance once in a while. It keeps their (minor leaguers) morale high and it rewards loyalty. Heck-he's from cincinnati.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #152
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Santa Paula, CA
    Posts
    6,536
    I agree M2, and I can see NO reason for dumping Walker so early in the process....surely his value would have risen as the current crop of Fa dwindled.

    If you wanted to get GREAT value for Walker, you might have waited until ST.

    For instance, I know the Dodgers have been looking for an alternative to Gruzelinik ever since they moved him to 2B. I bet they would have gotten interested if Bowden would have waited.

    I just don't see the sense in this deal at this time.

    The Reds have NO replacement for Walker. They could replace Casey, Sullivan or even White or all three.....why MAKE A HOLE by trading Walker?
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  4. #153
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Mason, OH
    Posts
    12,381
    This was probably the worst time in the trading cycle (winter meetings through trading deadline) to be trading Walker.

    Nobody has a burning need for an above-average-but-not-great 2B in December.

    Come July 2003 and Alphonso Soriano breaks his leg and the Yankees are in the thick of a pennant race, THEN he'd be worth a lot more and I'm sure the Reds could have gotten a equivalent value.

    But not now. However, they need to dump salary now and this was one of the less painful moves to make. But I agree with M2, Guernset, RiLA, et al, they should have gotten more.

  5. #154
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,833
    Look, all I'm saying is that when you hear about the 2B's supposedly "on the block" - guys like Vidro, possibly Castillo, possibly Giles. I've even heard that the Cards are taking offers for Vina. There are others. Add the FA 2B's out there, and suddenly it's easy to see why Walker brought in no more than he did.

    Maybe it was bad timing. But as several of you have pointed out, it is early. I think the time to be critical is on August 1st, when you finally see how things are going to pan out.

    It would have been great to land Sanchez and/or Fossum in exchane for Walker. But if I'm the Red Sox, I save those guys for the deal that lands me a Castillo or a Vidro. But if I have to turn around and include in a trade, guys like Edward Encarnacion and Bobby Bashan, in order to land Javier Vazquez and Vidro, I'll settle for Blanco and Thigpen in exchange for Todd Walker.

    I still think that there is a trade for a 2B coming. It may not happen this week, but I think it will happen before Spring Training opens.

    Now, if we're just clearing room so Juan Castro can play everyday, now you got a right to be fightin' mad!:mad: :mad: :mad:
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  6. #155
    BigRedOne
    Guest
    I'd like to know where you get this optimism from. The entire off season has been nothing but negatives from the illustrious front office. NOT ONE positive thing came from them to make us look forward to the team in the new stadium. So now when they start acting like they said they would, "Gotta lower that payroll" now its some first step of a larger plan. Dont misunderstand me, I am normally quite optimistic myself and will gladly eat crow and say how wrong I am if in fact I am proven so. But until then, I have a bad feeling about this offseason and the Reds have done nothing but feed it.

  7. #156
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,451
    Mike, all you're telling me is that you think it's a buyer's market. You might be right.

    My question is why sell in a buyer's market? Todd Walker won't start getting checks for a few months and you can give him away for nothing in February if it comes to that and you still need to clear his salary.

    So the Reds sell in a buyer's market and then I guess they wait to buy until the market gets more favorable for teams that are selling? That strikes me as awful backwards.

    I still adhere to the principle that each team in a trade should come away with a player it wants. The Reds don't seem to have that in this deal.

  8. #157
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    523
    The Reds did come away with what it wants. It removed 4 million from the payroll.

  9. #158
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,451
    Again, that wasn't a particularly difficult trick to pull off.

    It's always an opportune time to give away a guy coming off a good season who only costs $3.4 million, especially if that guy plays 2B, which has become an extremely thin position in the majors.

    If all you expect of the Reds' GM is an ability to give away something for nothing, then I congratulate you on being easy to please.

    Me, I still want a GM who, when he trades an everyday player, gets a return of somebody who stands a decent chance of helping the club or (get ready, because this is radical) who might even improve the club in the present or not-too-distant future.

  10. #159
    M2 that is radical! you are an anarchist!

    The point of every trade should be to reduce payroll !

    Winning be damned!


    I say lets deal Jr. for future consideration.

    I know I would sleep better at night knowing Carl Lindner's financial future is more secure.

  11. #160
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    523
    One of the problems with baseball is that unlike the NFL, you have guaranteed contracts. When a team like the Reds need to trim payroll, the only way they can do this is by trading to a team willing to assume that contract. In the NFL the Reds could solve problems like Barry Larkin, th Rockies and Hampton and Neagle and Toronto with Mondesi. The Reds need to dump salary and no team or Barry himself will let the Reds to trade Barry. No one wants to assume his contract and the Reds annot void because of the guarantee on contracts. The Reds need to move someone so they have to choose big salary players that other teams would want. Walker, Griffey, Casey, Sullivan etc. The Reds purpose in this trade is to move the salary off the books and they can't waive it so they do the next bes thing, trade players for prospectus. Now no team in their right mind would take Walker for good prospectus because he is not neccesary. What we received for Walker demonstrates his value, which is very little. Essentially both teams received what they want. Boston gets Walker which is a slight improvement until the Sanchez can come up , along with not loosing any high prospectus, the Reds get to the next best thing to waiving players, a salary dump with an added bonus of prospects regardless of their future worth. In the end we need to think about the motives of the trade. Would it be nice to keep Walker or get some really great prospects, yes, but that was not the motivation. It was to clear salary, and in baseball you clear salary by trading good expensive players for junk because you can not waive guys like you can in the nfl. Moving Walker is the expense of liking a small market team. If you hate it, then choose a team like the Cubs or the Yankees and follow them, but as a Red fan you assume that moves like this have to occur, it is baseball economics
    Last edited by haassolo; 12-13-2002 at 02:52 PM.

  12. #161
    Good point hassollo but living in chicago your taxes are probaley not paying for GAB. Alot of people in cincinnati are upset with both the reds and bengals. People feel so burned by Mike Brown and Carl Lindner that even a much needed school levy was defeated last month.

    People feel betrayed. We were promised competitive teams by both mike brown and the reds organization. The tax payers lived up to their end of the bargain and ponied up $400 million + for two new stadiums and all we have to show for it is a 1-13 football team and a MLB team dumping salaries on the eve of opening the new ballpark.

    There is alot of anger and resentment towards both organizations right now. It is not just me I can assure you.

  13. #162
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    523
    I completely agree that as Red's fans we should be angry about the ballpark situation. I use to live in the area and I have family in the nati, but as an organization the Reds can make very few mistakes. One for sure, Larkin, and possibly another, Casey, and we are paying for it. Both those guys are on the team becasue the fans wanted them on the team. When a team has bad contracts and a tight budget you have to do things like moving Todd Walker. It is funny how all the fans are the same. The Cubs fans hate they do not spend enough money to get guys like Glavine and Hampton while White Soxs fans love Frank Thomas one day and not the next. It how all fans work and it is part of being a fan

  14. #163
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,833
    I'd like to know where you get this optimism from. The entire off season has been nothing but negatives from the illustrious front office. NOT ONE positive thing came from them to make us look forward to the team in the new stadium. So now when they start acting like they said they would, "Gotta lower that payroll" now its some first step of a larger plan. Dont misunderstand me, I am normally quite optimistic myself and will gladly eat crow and say how wrong I am if in fact I am proven so. But until then, I have a bad feeling about this offseason and the Reds have done nothing but feed it.
    BRO, what is it EXACTLY that you want the Reds to do?

    Don't tell me what should have been done last year. What do you want them to do NOW?

    Everytime somebody from the FO opens their mouth, they are accused of lying. They could take out a full page ad in the newspaper and annouce that their payroll will be $60 million. But nobody'd believe them. What exactly do you want them to do?

    Do you want them to get Bartolo Colon? Problem is, no one wants to trade any Reds player that has any trade value because it will only be a salary dump. After Ken Griffey, there ain't NO ONE on this team valuable enough to fetch Colon. Trading Castro and Stinnet isn't going to land the type of talent that will put the Reds over the top.

    The Reds have not pursued anyone in the free agent market. Which, based on the players in the free agent pool, that seem like a wise course of action to me. Why OVERPAY someone that other teams don't even feel is worth the expense? Greg Maddox is the only player out there worth looking at, but I still don't think he's worth th $12-$15 million per year he's asking. Why waste money on an over-priced free agent just to make some kind of statement to your fans?

    You've *HEARD* that the Reds are cutting payroll. Yet every indication I've seen is that the Reds payroll will be around $55 million for 2003. John Allen, this morning in the Cincy Enquirer, thinks that payroll will probably exceed $55. How can you "cut" payroll and raise it at the same time? If you are worried about the "silence" surrounding the Reds' FO, this off-season, well ... after the Junior fiasco, perhaps they're better off keeping quiet. And if you are thinking about the Junior non-trade story, the Reds are idiots for not at least entertaining trade offers. If we're going to start judging these guys on the trades that didn't happen, then there's no way they are going to please anyone. Unfortunately, ANY move the Reds make , where we don't receive as neutral or additional payroll in return, is going to be viewed as a dump.

    Do I think there needs to be changes in the Reds front office? Absolutely. I think JimBo has lost some of his "magic touch" if he even had it to begin with. Do I think a Junior for Nevin deal was stupid? Absolutley. (Although I'm not sure Nevin wouldn't have been traded before he ever put on a Reds uniform).

    But, if the RIGHT deal came up for Junior, that would free enough payroll to go out and bring in Jose Vidro, Javier Vazquez, and Carlos Beltran - all under the $55 million payroll, I'd help Junior pack his bags and take him to the airport.

    You don't see why I am so optimistic. It's not that I'm optimistic as much as I'm patient - willing to wait and get the whole picture before I start hollering that "the sky is falling." I can't for the life of me see why many folks are so negative based on three or four alleged trades that DIDN'T happen, a table clearing trade that DID happen, and rumors of cost-cutting that the $55 million budget doesn't support. Folks are throwing in the towel when they haven't seen the finished product yet.

    I'm just saying let's ignore all the rumors and wait and see how it plays all out by Opening Day and the July 31 trading deadline. Then you can throw cold water on my parade all you want.
    Last edited by MikeS21; 12-13-2002 at 03:11 PM.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  15. #164
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,451
    haas, again, no one's asking for great prospects (the Red Sox only have one of those in the first place).

    The Cleveland Indians just picked up Travis Hafner, a solid hitting prospect, for Einar Diaz, who can't carry Todd Walker's jock. Mark Loretta fetched Keith Ginter. Randall Simon was worth Adrian Burnside.

    So the Reds just traded a player superior to all of those guys and got less in return. If other GMs do it, why can't ours?

    A budget is just a parameter. What ultimately determines whether you win or lose is the talent in your organization. The Reds just got less talented in dumping a relatively affordable one-year contract.

  16. #165
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    523
    Those examples do not compare to Todd Walker because the team in those trades would not assume Walker contract. The Reds needed to trade to teams that need a 2nd baseman and could assume an extra 4 million dollars. That leaves Boston and Los Angeles. As for talent, Todd Walker was not going to get any better. He is past his hitting peak and is not going to improve his defensive by getting any stronger or faster. Also, 4 million can get you some talent in the next draft, so the lost of Walker is not a talent drain. They picked up two guys that are young enough to turn into something, and if they do not pan out that is okay because only a minority of minor leaguers ever make to the show. The more chances you have the better


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25