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Thread: Introducing the New 2B of the Reds: Aaron Boone

  1. #106
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by westofyou
    2002 - I don't have


    .
    2002

    AAA-.302, 167 AB
    AA-.372, 155 AB
    AFL-.307, 75 AB

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  3. #107
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Raisor
    2002

    AAA-.302, 167 AB
    AA-.372, 155 AB
    AFL-.307, 75 AB

    See, he's getting better.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

    Your Mom is happy.

  4. #108
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    and why was he malingering? Because in bowden speak Pokey Reese will not be traded means just the opposite.

    I prefer to remember that hot beginning to 2000, when he was carrying the team with his bat.

    oh my what could have been.

    BTW Raisor, who would you rather have in his prime: Ozzie Smith or Miguel Tejada?
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #109
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TRF
    BTW Raisor, who would you rather have in his prime: Ozzie Smith or Miguel Tejada?
    I'd take Tejada.

    If we were in some alternate reality where Ozzie was playing in this era, yet played like the mid 80's Ozzie, then he's a higher quality Rey Ordonez. If, on the other hand, Tejada was playing in the mid-80's, and putting up 1000+ OPS as a SS, then he's the best player on the planet, glove or no glove.

    PSR

  6. #110
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Isn't Gookie out of options?

    I'd love a .340 OB% from Gookie, but his ML history suggests that is a ways off

    1999 - A - 309 ab - .266 op%
    1999 - AA - 128 ab - .362 op%
    2000 - AA - 380 ab - .274 op%
    2000 - NL - 41 ab - .256 op%
    2001 - AA - 401 ab - .251 op%
    2002 - I don't have
    in 1999 Gookie was a fast rising star until Jimbo pulls that "I'm not afraid to promote players. I did it with Carrasco" crap. He then let Gookie rot on the bench instead of getting needed development time playing every day. He should have been in Chatt. all season. Sexton, Castro or even Stynes should have been Barry's replacement. Offensively of course Dawkins isn't Kearns or Dunn. Defensively those two couldn't carry his jock.

    OPS worshipers repeat after me...

    "it is impossible to have 8 starters post a .800 OPS"

    sometimes offense needs to be sacrificed for defense. I'll go to my grave knowing that.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #111
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    Chili: the lead-off hitter theoretically gets on base a lot; the second place hitter theoretically moves him into scoring position to be driven in by the middle of the lineup. This is why it is better if the second place hitter is not a strike out artist; hard to move up the runner if you don't make contact.

    Of course, with someone as slow as Casey, too many double plays may result, which is why Dunn (with more speed) might be an option as well to bat second. Neither is ideal, but if Casey is hitting well I like him there. When Casey is in a funk, with all the ground balls to second, I don't like him there.

  8. #112
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    "sometimes offense needs to be sacrificed for defense. I'll go to my grave knowing that"

    Well yeah, that's true.

    No one ever said it wasn't.

    Just like no one ever said everyone has to OPS .800 (a feat that's getting harder to do every year)

    But you said You'd take a .340 OBA from Gookie.

    I said dream on.

  9. #113
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    a higher quality Rey Ordonez?

    bwa hahahaha!

    really.

    Ozzie Smith was without a doubt the BEST fielding shortstop ever. period. His RF was a full point higher than league average in any given year. He averaged 35 SB's a season from '78-'93, with an OBP of .337 for his career. his high being .392

    Since right now Tejada and Smith have similar BA's, and OBP's you are basing your arguement on power. I get speed and defense.

    I'll take Ozzie.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  10. #114
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by westofyou
    "sometimes offense needs to be sacrificed for defense. I'll go to my grave knowing that"

    Well yeah, that's true.

    No one ever said it wasn't.

    .
    It depends on how MUCH offense is being sacrificed for defense.

    Let's say you have two generic 2B on the roster. One OPS's about 800, and is average on defense. The other one has an OPS of 775, and plays all world defense, then yeah, I'll take option two, and trade option one for pitching.

    But if option one OPSes 800 with that average (or even below average) defense and option two OPS's 600 but plays that all world defense, then, defense or no defense, I'm sticking with option one.

  11. #115
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TRF

    Since right now Tejada and Smith have similar BA's, and OBP's you are basing your arguement on power. I get speed and defense.

    I'll take Ozzie.
    And I'll take Tejada. If we have identical teams everyplace else, then my team will score more runs then your's.

    Your team will prevent more runs then mine.

    My team will score more runs then your team prevents.

  12. #116
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    What if option two is your leadoff hitter, as Smith was. what if his OPS lifetime was around .670, but for most of his career his most important offensive stats were OBP and stolen bases?

    From '82-'92 Smith's OBP dipped below .330 once. It was usually .347 or above (7 times). During that 10 year span, he stole 396 bases. Tejada might touch the OBP numbers, but he is slow by comparison. and defensively it ain't close. So it's about need. Ozzie could handle the bat (top 10 in sac. hits 11 times) could steal a base, and play all universe defensively.

    Right now if both players played today in there prime Ozzie's numbers go up due to expansion, and he's the best leadoff hitter in the game.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #117
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    I'd take Tejada.

    If we were in some alternate reality where Ozzie was playing in this era, yet played like the mid 80's Ozzie, then he's a higher quality Rey Ordonez. If, on the other hand, Tejada was playing in the mid-80's, and putting up 1000+ OPS as a SS, then he's the best player on the planet, glove or no glove.
    but he wouldn't put up those numbers. It works the other way too. He'd probably hit .250 with 18-25 HR power. The pitching was better. The defense was better. And in the mindset of the eighties, he strikes out too much. The Cardinals team ERA in 1985 was 2.96. The league ERA was 3.59. See that happening again any time soon?
    Suck it up cupcake.

  14. #118
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TRF
    but he wouldn't put up those numbers.
    hey, this is MY alternate reality!

    PSR

  15. #119
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    good point. so we'll have two alternate realities.

    of course i'm still right and you're wrong.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #120
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TRF
    but he wouldn't put up those numbers. It works the other way too. He'd probably hit .250 with 18-25 HR power. The pitching was better.
    I know this is the conventional wisdom, but I'm not sure I want to get married to that conventional wisdom. I happen to think that today's hitters are a) bigger and stronger and b) have a wiser approach.

    I don't particularly care for Tejada's approach, but I can't argue with the shape of his body or his results.

    I completely believe that pitching gets diluted in the couple years following each expansion year, but we've played 5 seasons since the last expansion plus we're now drawing pitchers from all over the globe. I think the Tejada in 2002 probably saw pitching comparable to Ozzie. I'll never be able to prove that, but it's my theory.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids


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